And they impeached Clinton for what?

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by Zyro

The discussion on WMD's has been over for quite a while now. The following is just SOME of what has been found in Iraq.

1) 1.77 metric tons of enriched uranium
In a joint Energy and Defense Department operation, 1.77 metric tons of low-enriched uranium and approximately 1000 highly radioactive sources were secured from Iraq's former nuclear research facility, packaged and then airlifted on June 23, the press statement said.
"This operation was a major achievement for the Bush Administration's goal to keep potentially dangerous nuclear materials out of the hands of terrorists," Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham said in the statement. "It also puts this material out of reach for countries that may seek to develop their own nuclear weapons. BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | US reveals Iraq nuclear operation

2) 1,500 gallons of chemical weapons agents
U.S. troops raiding a warehouse in the northern city of Mosul uncovered a suspected chemical weapons factory containing 1,500 gallons of chemicals believed destined for attacks on U.S. and Iraqi forces and civilians, military officials said Saturday.

Iraqi Chemical Stash Uncovered


3) 17 chemical warheads containing cyclosarin (a nerve agent five times more deadly than sarin gas)
"Laboratory tests showed the presence in them of cyclosarin, a very toxic gas, five times stronger than sarin and five times more durable," Bieniek told Poland's TVN24 at the force's Camp Babylon headquarters.
"If these warheads, which were still usable, were used on a military base like Camp Babylon, they would have caused unforeseeable damage."


FOXNews.com - Polish Troops Find Sarin Warheads - U.S. & World



4) Over 1,000 radioactive materials in powdered form meant for dispersal over populated areas
"Along with 1.77 tons of enriched uranium, about 1,000 "highly radioactive sources" were also removed.
The material was taken from a former nuclear research facility on 23 June, after being packaged by 20 experts from the US Energy Department's secret laboratories." BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | US reveals Iraq nuclear operation

5) Roadside bombs loaded with mustard and "conventional" sarin gas, assembled in binary chemical projectiles for maximum potency

FOXNews.com - Sarin, Mustard Gas Discovered Separately in Iraq - U.S. & World

The UN, Democrats, and Republicans knew of this. France, Germany, and Russia sold Iraq equipment for WMD development. They had these weapons right up until the war. Some were even looted and transported to Syria. Inspectors discovered them, destroyed some, and shipped others out of the country. We have uncovered facilities, materials, and rockets since the beginning of the invasion in 2003. It's been documented and reported.

I cannot believe that this is still a debatable issue.

Dude, you can't link FOX NEWS here. You can only link reliable, upstanding and unbiased journalistic institutions like Al Jazeera, MediaMatters, HuffingtonPost and the RawStory. That BBC bit is ok, but it only cursed Bush 32 times in that article. Must be old.

[GrobbeeTrull2.0]

Well, for one, this looks to be short lived. Despite your claims that one sign of upturn = victory and gg, at least one other important man disagrees.

Of course, what's the word of a general who's been there against the opinion and ferve of Khorum?

[Zyro]

Unfortunately with links to any other "legitimate" news source, people that don't want to listen to the truth are going to ignore the information either way. It's more or less the equivalent of plugging ones ears and screaming "la la la la la I can't hear you." It's a ridiculously sad day in this country when there is unabashed and stalwart resistance to ANY good news from a war involving US Soldiers. The Yea-but argument is disgraceful. We are succeeding and bringing real hope to the lives of Iraqis and American citizens are reluctant to admit that things are improving. Why be reluctant? Is it to prevent a potential let-down if you were to start being optimistic and something bad happened? Or is it because admitting we are doing better and we are continuing to improve the state of affairs in Iraq is contrary to the outcome you were hoping for?

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

Well, for one, this looks to be short lived. Despite your claims that one sign of upturn = victory and gg, at least one other important man disagrees.

Of course, what's the word of a general who's been there against the opinion and ferve of Khorum?

AHAHAHAH google up Sanchez's term of service, why he was fired and who replaced him Grobbee. Those "uncooperative" leaders he spoke about included Abu Risha and the Anbar Sheikhs but back while he was in-theater in 2003-2004 (when those guys basically WERE the insurgency). He was fired largely for performing worse than Bremer but also (unfairly I must add) for the Abu Ghraib clusterfuck. He retired in early 2006 and was replaced by the Petraeus and the surge.

As to why he's bitching about the Press and the Administration NOW---but mostly the press, his actual news conference spent 30 mins on shitting on the press and about 5 mins on the administration, 4 of which was about Rumsfeld---maybe it has a little to do with a certain $200,000 advance check for his new book. That's just a WILD guess though.

But hey, that's a good point. Dude hasn't been to Iraq since the Surge and he hasn't even been in the service since he retired in 2006 but I'm sure glad he can tell us how Rumsfeld fucked up the prosecution of the Iraqi Occupation between 2004 and 2005, we REALLY didn't get enough news about that.

Originally Posted by Zyro

Why be reluctant? Is it to prevent a potential let-down if you were to start being optimistic and something bad happened? Or is it because admitting we are doing better and we are continuing to improve the state of affairs in Iraq is contrary to the outcome you were hoping for?

There are some who are stuck in the Denial phase. Some like that Al Jazeera dude who's in the anger phase and is now blaming everyone on his team. But there are those who know that a successful Iraqi occupation will show that Dubya's Preemptive Intervention doctrine truly is a force for positive transformation. A healthy and vibrant Iraqi Republic to them represents the triumph of positive action over unconditional appeasement. To these people there must never be any victory because they know it will expose their hollow idealism for the cowardice it is.

[xilsharn]

Grobbee, sorry buddy, but I've been watching the turnaround in Anbar for the past year. By "watching it" I mean that literally.

The "kinetic" (i.e. shoot-em-up bang-bang stuff) is mostly over. There are still very, very light attacks, and IEDs are still being discovered... by Iraqi Police. the fighting is over. Now the tough stuff begins. Governance, economics, infrastructure. All much more challenging than dismantling an insurgency.

[xilsharn]

Also, quoting retired generals for support of policy is ridiculous. Most of those guys are political wonks once they get out, parlayed by cynical politicians into an emotional pillar for their policy. We just got lucky that Petraeus knows what the fuck he's doing. Probably the first American general we've had in charge of the whole show over here who does.

[Itzena]

Originally Posted by Zyro

The discussion on WMD's has been over for quite a while now. The following is just SOME of what has been found in Iraq.
...

I cannot believe that this is still a debatable issue.

Neither can I

Intelligence officials have confirmed the US has stopped searching for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

They say the chief US investigator, Charles Duelfer, is not planning to return to the country.

Mr Duelfer reported last year that Iraq had no stockpiles of chemical or biological weapons at the time of the US-led invasion nearly two years ago.

Your links are either to stories that were later revealed to be either exaggeration or outright lies, or to stories about chemical weapons imported into Iraq from elsewhere after the war and after the US let the country go straight to hell.

Sorry, no casus belli there.

[Astrocreep]

valerie plame and iraq are linked becuase she sent her unqualified douchebag husband on a mission to "gather intelligence" about Iraq's WMD program.

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by Itzena

Your links are either to stories that were later revealed to be either exaggeration or outright lies, or to stories about chemical weapons imported into Iraq from elsewhere after the war and after the US let the country go straight to hell.

Sorry, no casus belli there.

Oh so they didn't find 1.77 metric tons of enriched uranium then? How exactly was that later revealed to be an exaggeration except by uninformed bloggers desperate to stitch up their insistence on the illegality of the war? Oh was that uranium ANY LESS FISSILE than the less than 0.4 metric tons that the Israelis bombed Osirak for? Wait, lemme guess, it's perfectly OK for Saddam to possess over four times the amount of enriched uranium that they had been burned for having before right? Yeah, a monster that murdered 1.2 million of his own people had every right to access to 'peaceful' nuclear capability, even if those 1.77 metric tons of uranium was only a few centrifuges away from almost 50 hiroshima bombs.

So yeah, how exactly were those findings later revealed to be something other than what they are. Because from here it sure looks like they were WMDs. But I agree with you on one thing though: the only casus belli we ever really needed was that Saddam Hussein still lived and his people needed our assistance.

[GrobbeeTrull2.0]

So where is the assistance for most of Africa? Southeast Asia? Central America?

If that's the casus belli, then uh...

[Khorum]

It's coming Grobbee. Iran first.

[Ashes Emberblade]

Originally Posted by Snugglebear

Does anyone notice how this Ashes Emberblade guy defends both the right-wing and Vanguard: Saga of Heroes?

Vanguard has been discussed in an Iraq thread. This forum is over. The internet has been won.

[Astrocreep]

Khorum i think the way the libs explain away all the uranium and other nuclear centrifuges and stuff was that it wasnt yet weaponized or some bullshit. BTW the whole joe wilson Iraq was looking for yellowcake bit was not only confirmed true by the brits but also the russians so we are well beyond the president lied people died, war for oil bullshit.
BTW we were in africa under clinton , go watch Black Hawk down and Hotel Rwanda for the reasons why we left there .

[Kaosu]

Originally Posted by Khorum

It's coming Grobbee. Iran first.

As idealistic as you can get, as I doubt the people and the government will have the drive to push forth to bring about a NWO (not like thats a bad thing).

As fervent as you are about the Bush Doctrine, his term is up soon. What if a Democratic gets elected? Or a non neoconservative?

Not everyone takes the ball and runs with it, after it gets passed to them. Technology and society always steams ahead, but the ball in the political world changes courts so often that modern-day Crusades usually do not work.

The goods and the bads about having such a wide-array of opinions.

However, I think you realize that as well. Or maybe I'm just ripped out of my mind after snorting laced coke off supermodel's ass while running away from the police in a stretch limo getting hate head from Ann Coulter all the while the Bush twins are rimjobbing me from behind.

...
I hope its the latter.

[Kaosu]

Originally Posted by Astrocreep

Khorum i think the way the libs explain away all the uranium and other nuclear centrifuges and stuff was that it wasnt yet weaponized or some bullshit. BTW the whole joe wilson Iraq was looking for yellowcake bit was not only confirmed true by the brits but also the russians so we are well beyond the president lied people died, war for oil bullshit.
BTW we were in africa under clinton , go watch Black Hawk down and Hotel Rwanda for the reasons why we left there .

My uncle, who was a Marine Recon, was in Somalia during the black hawk down incident. To keep it short: America alone won't beable to change Africa feasibility.

My opinion? American will stay its proxy war with African warstates for sometime. The Middle-east and Africa will probably be the last places before the World is unified in a world government(s), sometime down the road.