Flying in the US may become even less pleasant

Soriak · 09-21-2007, 03:53 PM

That is if the DHS gets its way:

Papers, Please! » Blog Archive » DHS proposes to require both ID papers and passes for all air travel

Quote:

1. All would-be international travellers to or from the USA (even US citizens crossing the U.S.-Canada border on foot) would have to have government-issued ID credentials
2. All would-be passengers on international or domestic flights to, from, over, via, or within the U.S. would have to have both government-issued ID credentials and explicit case-by-case prior permission from the DHS to the airline to allow each passenger to board a plane.

So, basically, before getting on a plane, you'll need to apply for permission with the Department of Homeland Security.

The new program will also build a database with your lifetime travel.

TKarrde · 09-21-2007, 03:55 PM

There's no way that will be passed.

Right?

.... right?

Millie · 09-21-2007, 03:56 PM

The whole thing is incredibly myopic, and not even because of the whole giving up liberty for security issue. It's silly because it's all amounting to a bunch of wasted effort. If our government officials thinks the terrorists are going to attack us next time using the exact same methods as 9/11 -- or even using planes at all, for that matter -- they have their heads up their asses. They're barking a hell of a lot up the wrong tree.

They should be looking at ports, mass transit, and other potential terrorist methods and targets. The last thing terrorists are going to do is cover the same tracks they did before. The terrorists aren't idiots.

brekk · 09-21-2007, 03:58 PM

One step closer to the USSA

Havelock · 09-21-2007, 03:59 PM

I'm skeptical of how effective the current system is, but the proposal you link sounds functionally identical to what we have now. You already have to show ID to get through security, and the permission of the DHS stuff makes it sound like the airline would just check you against a watch list before they let you on the plane - which I thought they were already doing, just more haphazardly.

Again, I'd like to see a hard look given to current practices, as the amount of time wasted seems to outweigh the security gains, but I don't see how the DHS proposal would make traveling any less pleasant than it already is.

tad10 · 09-21-2007, 04:08 PM

Reading the actual DHS info on this not the chicken little version it looks like DHS doing this to prevent suits against the airlines and gov't by the ACLUeless.

Currently airlines have to check passengers against a gov't watch list.

The new rules would establish a system where the gov't checks the airlines passengers against the gov't watch list.

Under the current system airlines could be liable it they screwup someones name and that passenger is incorrectly determined to be on a gov't watch list.

TSA: Secure Flight Program

In other words, y'all can thank these guys:

American Civil Liberties Union : Fact Sheet: Federal Watch Lists

This is a case of be careful what you wish for I am thinking.

Soriak · 09-21-2007, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tad10

TSA: Secure Flight Program

In other words, y'all can thank these guys:

American Civil Liberties Union : Fact Sheet: Federal Watch Lists

This is a case of be careful what you wish for I am thinking.

The ACLU criticizes the lists themselves - and for good reason. Read the article you linked at least

Over 20,000 people on the list in 2004, all of which we should believe are likely to be terrorists?

What will you do when your 'travel permission' is not granted? I'm sure it'll be impossible to sue your way out of it, which means you better not be fond of flying in the future. Or have a job that requires you to travel.

Bralkan · 09-21-2007, 04:33 PM

Experts: Student with fake bomb lucky wasn't shot -- Newsday.com

Havelock · 09-21-2007, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bralkan

Experts: Student with fake bomb lucky wasn't shot -- Newsday.com

The headline pretty much sums it up.

Rythonn · 09-21-2007, 04:49 PM

Only thing I am finding on it is that the Airline must submit a boarding list before the plane takes off. The site above doesn't link anything to confirm their it. This is what I found.

http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/..._factsheet.pdf

It is a fact sheet for the APIS(advanced passenger information system) dated 8-10-2007

Kugbok_Fennin · 09-21-2007, 04:55 PM

Google: Real ID Act or RFID Chip

Burkex · 09-21-2007, 05:04 PM

Why would you want to leave the country? The value of the US Dollar is declining every day and will continue to go down. Basically, the president has fucked up the economy so badly with his personal war that the US Dollar completely sucks now. Good job. The US dollar is now equal to the Canadien Dollar. When I was a kid the Canadien Dollar was less than .5 to 1. Now it is 1 to 1. And don't get me started on the Euro. I have relatives in Europe and when they came here to visit they went on a shopping spree because everything was so cheap thanks to the value of the Euro. On the other hand, my brother just went to Paris and he said the conversion rate is completely nuts because of the declining US dollar. So yea if you are going to travel outside the US be prepaired to break open the piggy bank. Forget ordering some extra piece of paper to travel, the money issue is way worse imo.

Havelock · 09-21-2007, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burkex

Stuff

I didn't realize the Hollywood Upstairs College of Medicine also awarded economics degrees.

TOOL · 09-21-2007, 05:20 PM

I believe that people falsify government issued identifications to buy alcohol while underage.

I don't believe that requiring a potential terrorist to falsify a government issued ID will prevent any competent terrorists from boarding any airplanes.

Millie · 09-21-2007, 05:21 PM

In fairness, Bush isn't the only one fucking up the economy. Ben Barnanke is going a "heck of a job" (to use Bush's favorite phrase) in that department, as well.

Essentially, he is allowing the dollar to continue to weaken in the hopes that it will create a positive export/import balance with other nations: the theory being that the reason no one buys our products anymore is because they're too expensive. In theory, this seems reasonable, but in practice, the reason no one buys our products is because they're an order of magnitude more expensive than products produced in China -- and weakening the dollar isn't going to solve that problem. So, in effect, all he's doing is precipitating a US dollar currency collapse via inflation while not accomplishing his goal of righting trade imbalances. Besides, we're not a manufacturing economy anymore, and we've outsourced all our manufacturing -- so his attempts to "level the playing field" in that area are for naught in the first place.

Basically, hold onto your hats. It's going to get a lot bumpier before it gets better.

This economics thread derailing brought to you by Annoyed Citizen of the Declining Roman Empire #35506466.

09-21-2007, 04:08 PM	#6 (permalink)
tad10 Never give up. Never surrender, you fucks! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,828 -24 Internets	Reading the actual DHS info on this not the chicken little version it looks like DHS doing this to prevent suits against the airlines and gov't by the ACLUeless. Currently airlines have to check passengers against a gov't watch list. The new rules would establish a system where the gov't checks the airlines passengers against the gov't watch list. Under the current system airlines could be liable it they screwup someones name and that passenger is incorrectly determined to be on a gov't watch list. TSA: Secure Flight Program In other words, y'all can thank these guys: American Civil Liberties Union : Fact Sheet: Federal Watch Lists This is a case of be careful what you wish for I am thinking. __________________ Surface - Drunken Monk of Seradon

09-21-2007, 04:33 PM	#8 (permalink)
Bralkan Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 2,118 -1 Internets	Experts: Student with fake bomb lucky wasn't shot -- Newsday.com __________________ We're all idiots. http://nottheparrot.blogspot.com

09-21-2007, 04:55 PM	#11 (permalink)
Kugbok_Fennin Iran didn't do it! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orange County, CA "Margaritaville" Posts: 894	Google: Real ID Act or RFID Chip __________________ Kugbok -Tichondrius "Imagination is sometimes more important than knowledge..." Eckolaker's MySpace

09-21-2007, 05:04 PM	#12 (permalink)
Burkex It's Lord of the Flies time. Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,528 -35 Internets	Why would you want to leave the country? The value of the US Dollar is declining every day and will continue to go down. Basically, the president has fucked up the economy so badly with his personal war that the US Dollar completely sucks now. Good job. The US dollar is now equal to the Canadien Dollar. When I was a kid the Canadien Dollar was less than .5 to 1. Now it is 1 to 1. And don't get me started on the Euro. I have relatives in Europe and when they came here to visit they went on a shopping spree because everything was so cheap thanks to the value of the Euro. On the other hand, my brother just went to Paris and he said the conversion rate is completely nuts because of the declining US dollar. So yea if you are going to travel outside the US be prepaired to break open the piggy bank. Forget ordering some extra piece of paper to travel, the money issue is way worse imo. Last edited by Burkex : 09-21-2007 at 05:07 PM.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread:

09-21-2007, 03:55 PM	#2 (permalink)
TKarrde Beebop a loubop awhapshamboo and domo arigatou if I got to Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 638	There's no way that will be passed. Right? .... right?

09-21-2007, 03:56 PM	#3 (permalink)
Millie Loves the Powerglove. It's so bad! Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 5,783	The whole thing is incredibly myopic, and not even because of the whole giving up liberty for security issue. It's silly because it's all amounting to a bunch of wasted effort. If our government officials thinks the terrorists are going to attack us next time using the exact same methods as 9/11 -- or even using planes at all, for that matter -- they have their heads up their asses. They're barking a hell of a lot up the wrong tree. They should be looking at ports, mass transit, and other potential terrorist methods and targets. The last thing terrorists are going to do is cover the same tracks they did before. The terrorists aren't idiots.

09-21-2007, 03:59 PM	#5 (permalink)
Havelock Lead Farmer Join Date: May 2005 Location: DC Posts: 1,590	I'm skeptical of how effective the current system is, but the proposal you link sounds functionally identical to what we have now. You already have to show ID to get through security, and the permission of the DHS stuff makes it sound like the airline would just check you against a watch list before they let you on the plane - which I thought they were already doing, just more haphazardly. Again, I'd like to see a hard look given to current practices, as the amount of time wasted seems to outweigh the security gains, but I don't see how the DHS proposal would make traveling any less pleasant than it already is.

09-21-2007, 04:49 PM	#10 (permalink)
Rythonn Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,665	Only thing I am finding on it is that the Airline must submit a boarding list before the plane takes off. The site above doesn't link anything to confirm their it. This is what I found. http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/..._factsheet.pdf It is a fact sheet for the APIS(advanced passenger information system) dated 8-10-2007

09-21-2007, 05:20 PM	#14 (permalink)
TOOL Yes. Oui. Si. Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Anonymity is a virtue. Posts: 536 -7 Internets	I believe that people falsify government issued identifications to buy alcohol while underage. I don't believe that requiring a potential terrorist to falsify a government issued ID will prevent any competent terrorists from boarding any airplanes.

09-21-2007, 05:21 PM	#15 (permalink)
Millie Loves the Powerglove. It's so bad! Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 5,783	In fairness, Bush isn't the only one fucking up the economy. Ben Barnanke is going a "heck of a job" (to use Bush's favorite phrase) in that department, as well. Essentially, he is allowing the dollar to continue to weaken in the hopes that it will create a positive export/import balance with other nations: the theory being that the reason no one buys our products anymore is because they're too expensive. In theory, this seems reasonable, but in practice, the reason no one buys our products is because they're an order of magnitude more expensive than products produced in China -- and weakening the dollar isn't going to solve that problem. So, in effect, all he's doing is precipitating a US dollar currency collapse via inflation while not accomplishing his goal of righting trade imbalances. Besides, we're not a manufacturing economy anymore, and we've outsourced all our manufacturing -- so his attempts to "level the playing field" in that area are for naught in the first place. Basically, hold onto your hats. It's going to get a lot bumpier before it gets better. This economics thread derailing brought to you by Annoyed Citizen of the Declining Roman Empire #35506466.