Restoring Habeas Corpus

Cadrid · 09-19-2007, 07:40 AM

This is the week that Senators Dodd and Leahy introduce their bill for restoring habeas corpus. I saw this site on Digg and thought it was a nice, simple way of seeing which congresspersons needed a verbal kick in the rear to keep this from getting filibustered or vetoed into the trash can. So, for those of you that are represented by the "Maybe" folks I figured I'd give the link and hope you could take a few minutes to ring them up.

Also, the website is funded by Dodd's presidential campaign, so it is a little self-serving. Regardless, it's still a bill that needs to be passed and I hoped some interest around here would help attain that goal.

chaos · 09-19-2007, 07:47 AM

This is the problem with allowing the government to take your rights away, they don't have to give them back, ever. And most likely they won't. I predict this bill fails.

Soriak · 09-19-2007, 08:54 AM

If your senator is market as "aye," it probably doesn't hurt to call or mail something either - a quick "I appreciate that you're in favor of this" or something, because you know the "nay" people are lobbying too

Gahid · 09-19-2007, 10:10 AM

1. Impeach president
2. Restore Habeas Corpus
3. ??????
4. Profit

MrGraham · 09-19-2007, 02:23 PM

Disgusting the party lines on this vote. I'm not talking about it being disgusting that the Republicans are against the measure - I'm sure they're convinced the language doesn't satisfy something and will embolden terrorists and la da da.

Today I had to drive an hour and couldn't find a radio station and ended up listening to the CSPAN live debate of the measure to make troops spend an equal amount of time deployed and dwell time (not necessarily at home, also training and various other duties, just not in active combat). I was appalled listening to them. Everyone just fills their speeches with as many SUPPORT OUR TROOPS and TERRORISM (both sides) and other key words over and over again, then they suck each other's cocks and call everyone's mother a whore and it takes 4 hours for 5 of them to say the exact same shit.

How does this happen? How have all of our resources and votes become centered around a conflict in another country that may or may not cause danger to us in the future if left unchecked? I am so embarassed that we as a society can be goaded into caring more about this war than every single other issue, regardless of how many multitudes more people are dying because of health related issues, poverty, etc., or how many kids are growing up with pathetic educations ...

I guess my point is, maybe Iraq is important, maybe it isn't, but is there anyone out there who can point to me how this can possibly be the MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE and warrant all of the money, all of the attention, and all of the lives it has?

Oh wait, this is a society where people who play a fucking sports game get paid 300 times what our teachers do, and that has nothing to do with the government. Who am I kidding? There is no logic to look for.

Soriak · 09-19-2007, 03:03 PM

Senators don't argue on the floor to convince each other - they're hoping to have a clip of what they say appear on TV. Hence why they only use buzzwords. The price of having cameras pointed at the stage during debates...

TKarrde · 09-19-2007, 03:20 PM

Called both of my senators, got told in a nutshell to fuck off.

Though, what can you expect? Texas.

Tolanin · 09-19-2007, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGraham

Disgusting the party lines on this vote. I'm not talking about it being disgusting that the Republicans are against the measure - I'm sure they're convinced the language doesn't satisfy something and will embolden terrorists and la da da.

Today I had to drive an hour and couldn't find a radio station and ended up listening to the CSPAN live debate of the measure to make troops spend an equal amount of time deployed and dwell time (not necessarily at home, also training and various other duties, just not in active combat). I was appalled listening to them. Everyone just fills their speeches with as many SUPPORT OUR TROOPS and TERRORISM (both sides) and other key words over and over again, then they suck each other's cocks and call everyone's mother a whore and it takes 4 hours for 5 of them to say the exact same shit.

How does this happen? How have all of our resources and votes become centered around a conflict in another country that may or may not cause danger to us in the future if left unchecked? I am so embarassed that we as a society can be goaded into caring more about this war than every single other issue, regardless of how many multitudes more people are dying because of health related issues, poverty, etc., or how many kids are growing up with pathetic educations ...

I guess my point is, maybe Iraq is important, maybe it isn't, but is there anyone out there who can point to me how this can possibly be the MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE and warrant all of the money, all of the attention, and all of the lives it has?

Oh wait, this is a society where people who play a fucking sports game get paid 300 times what our teachers do, and that has nothing to do with the government. Who am I kidding? There is no logic to look for.

Well its not like we are faced with a ton of pressing dire concerns at home.

And omg people who have a rare skill make more money than people who dont alert the press teachers should make a bazillion dollars for their limited skillset thats in limited demand.

GrobbeeTrull2.0 · 09-19-2007, 04:12 PM

Rare skill? What? Are you fucking kidding me?

Let's gauge their usefulness to society, shall we? In the US, a fairly large majority of people have "teachers" in contact with them for anywhere from 7ish to 13ish years, and rely on them for a large majority of their preperation for their future, including knowledge, socialization, finding interests, imbuing them with self-esteem, etc.

Or, we can pay people obscene amounts of money so that we can have something to talk about over beers. Although, truth be told, a lot of people like college sports just as well, and they play for free. So, uh, yeah.

Makes sense to me.

Gahid · 09-19-2007, 11:24 PM

It's called capitalism. You know, baseball players went on strike. Because they weren't being paid a reasonable salary based on their club's profits. Think about it.

Cadrid · 09-20-2007, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKarrde

Called both of my senators, got told in a nutshell to fuck off.

Though, what can you expect? Texas.

Well, they have to support America's Cowboy [raise in Connecticut and with an Ivy League degree].

As for the professional sports wages argument, lets not derail a thread about restoring basic human rights into the opinionated rhetoric of who deserves what kinds of wages. Are teachers underpaid for what their job entails? Sure. Then again, how many teachers are actually good teachers? On the opposite end of the spectrum we have sports figures that play for our entertainment. However, there are only a select few that can play the game at a level that is entertaining. Both sides are right in their own ways.

Please, try and stay at least within the ballpark of this thread's intent: getting the country back on track. We, as a citizenry, are nosediving and the last thing we need to add to this situation is a schism of petty financial feuds.

Lusiphur · 09-20-2007, 03:52 AM

As a non-American this cracks me up.

You guys have to plebiscite to restore a basic right that most Western civilisations have had in one form or another since the Middle Ages.

It's just mind-boggling ...

(As a caveat I dont think basic human rights are any safer here in the UK either).

Dabamf · 09-20-2007, 05:22 AM

Teachers aren't underpaid because most are absolutely terrible, their job is easy, and they work 3/4 of the year. Oh yea and they really have no accountability. I hate popular beliefs, because people start believing them simply because everyone else does.

Back on track, yea it's kinda ridiculous that we are even in a position where it is necessary to reinstate habeas corpus.

Aamina · 09-20-2007, 11:58 AM

Back OFF track, I was going to school to become an English teacher but have since stopped. Why? My wife who has no degree makes more money than I would as a teacher, and she started working there last year. I couldn't even support a family the size I want on what a high school teacher makes, which is what I wanted to be.

And on track,

"You guys have to plebiscite to restore a basic right that most Western civilisations have had in one form or another since the Middle Ages.

It's just mind-boggling ..."

Pretty sure the Middle Ages aren't a very good place to reference rights from. Most western civilizations had something like...what...10-20% of the people living in their nations as "citizens" with a vote?

-Aamina

Algol Devilstar · 09-20-2007, 12:31 PM

if America really, I mean really, cares about their childs education, you would pay those missionaries... err I mean teachers more. Make it a job that people WANT to get and strive to be the best. I used to talk about how much I make to my teacher friend until I found out how little he made. I felt pretty bad about that, especially considering he had worked so hard to get where he is...

09-19-2007, 07:40 AM	#1 (permalink)
Cadrid Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Acton, Massachusetts Posts: 1,671 +2 Internets	Restoring Habeas Corpus This is the week that Senators Dodd and Leahy introduce their bill for restoring habeas corpus. I saw this site on Digg and thought it was a nice, simple way of seeing which congresspersons needed a verbal kick in the rear to keep this from getting filibustered or vetoed into the trash can. So, for those of you that are represented by the "Maybe" folks I figured I'd give the link and hope you could take a few minutes to ring them up. Also, the website is funded by Dodd's presidential campaign, so it is a little self-serving. Regardless, it's still a bill that needs to be passed and I hoped some interest around here would help attain that goal.

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09-19-2007, 07:47 AM	#2 (permalink)
chaos Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 4,392 +6 Internets	This is the problem with allowing the government to take your rights away, they don't have to give them back, ever. And most likely they won't. I predict this bill fails.

09-19-2007, 08:54 AM	#3 (permalink)
Soriak Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Switzerland Posts: 4,786 +30 Internets	If your senator is market as "aye," it probably doesn't hurt to call or mail something either - a quick "I appreciate that you're in favor of this" or something, because you know the "nay" people are lobbying too

09-19-2007, 10:10 AM	#4 (permalink)
Gahid Registared User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,006 +0 Internets	1. Impeach president 2. Restore Habeas Corpus 3. ?????? 4. Profit

09-19-2007, 02:23 PM	#5 (permalink)
MrGraham Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 922 +1 Internets	Disgusting the party lines on this vote. I'm not talking about it being disgusting that the Republicans are against the measure - I'm sure they're convinced the language doesn't satisfy something and will embolden terrorists and la da da. Today I had to drive an hour and couldn't find a radio station and ended up listening to the CSPAN live debate of the measure to make troops spend an equal amount of time deployed and dwell time (not necessarily at home, also training and various other duties, just not in active combat). I was appalled listening to them. Everyone just fills their speeches with as many SUPPORT OUR TROOPS and TERRORISM (both sides) and other key words over and over again, then they suck each other's cocks and call everyone's mother a whore and it takes 4 hours for 5 of them to say the exact same shit. How does this happen? How have all of our resources and votes become centered around a conflict in another country that may or may not cause danger to us in the future if left unchecked? I am so embarassed that we as a society can be goaded into caring more about this war than every single other issue, regardless of how many multitudes more people are dying because of health related issues, poverty, etc., or how many kids are growing up with pathetic educations ... I guess my point is, maybe Iraq is important, maybe it isn't, but is there anyone out there who can point to me how this can possibly be the MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE and warrant all of the money, all of the attention, and all of the lives it has? Oh wait, this is a society where people who play a fucking sports game get paid 300 times what our teachers do, and that has nothing to do with the government. Who am I kidding? There is no logic to look for.

09-19-2007, 03:03 PM	#6 (permalink)
Soriak Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Switzerland Posts: 4,786 +30 Internets	Senators don't argue on the floor to convince each other - they're hoping to have a clip of what they say appear on TV. Hence why they only use buzzwords. The price of having cameras pointed at the stage during debates...

09-19-2007, 03:20 PM	#7 (permalink)
TKarrde Beebop a loubop awhapshamboo and domo arigatou if I got to Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 638	Called both of my senators, got told in a nutshell to fuck off. Though, what can you expect? Texas.

09-19-2007, 04:12 PM	#9 (permalink)
GrobbeeTrull2.0 Proud Communist Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 2,351	Rare skill? What? Are you fucking kidding me? Let's gauge their usefulness to society, shall we? In the US, a fairly large majority of people have "teachers" in contact with them for anywhere from 7ish to 13ish years, and rely on them for a large majority of their preperation for their future, including knowledge, socialization, finding interests, imbuing them with self-esteem, etc. Or, we can pay people obscene amounts of money so that we can have something to talk about over beers. Although, truth be told, a lot of people like college sports just as well, and they play for free. So, uh, yeah. Makes sense to me.

09-19-2007, 11:24 PM	#10 (permalink)
Gahid Registared User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,006 +0 Internets	It's called capitalism. You know, baseball players went on strike. Because they weren't being paid a reasonable salary based on their club's profits. Think about it.

09-20-2007, 03:52 AM	#12 (permalink)
Lusiphur Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bonny Scotland Posts: 366 -3 Internets	As a non-American this cracks me up. You guys have to plebiscite to restore a basic right that most Western civilisations have had in one form or another since the Middle Ages. It's just mind-boggling ... (As a caveat I dont think basic human rights are any safer here in the UK either).

09-20-2007, 05:22 AM	#13 (permalink)
Dabamf Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,800 +5 Internets	Teachers aren't underpaid because most are absolutely terrible, their job is easy, and they work 3/4 of the year. Oh yea and they really have no accountability. I hate popular beliefs, because people start believing them simply because everyone else does. Back on track, yea it's kinda ridiculous that we are even in a position where it is necessary to reinstate habeas corpus.

09-20-2007, 12:31 PM	#15 (permalink)
Algol Devilstar Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The NW Posts: 3,497 +0 Internets	if America really, I mean really, cares about their childs education, you would pay those missionaries... err I mean teachers more. Make it a job that people WANT to get and strive to be the best. I used to talk about how much I make to my teacher friend until I found out how little he made. I felt pretty bad about that, especially considering he had worked so hard to get where he is...