Why can't microsoft make a decent product: see Zune

[Gieve]

I've been following the development of the zune for a while now, starting when I heard they were incorporating wi-fi, something I wish my ipod had. But as it turns out, the device represents everything I dont want to see in the digital distribution system.

I just don't get it. It's not like they don't have the $$ to hire some incredible talent. What the hell were they thinking with the zune? It has less features than the products the are competing against, and the DRM license fees are confusing, expensive and media companies can change the license deals for any media WHENEVER THEY WANT. Are you kidding? Even the most uneducated American consumer knows that music labels are the evil.

Now they are trying to make a deal with Universal to implement a 'tax' on media devices, because they know they'll barely sell a million units whereas apple sells 20mil + each quarter.

This site has a great summary of the zune development cycle over the last few years, it's a good read. It's a little apple biased, but it's mostly facts.

The Two Faced Monster Inside Zune

[Vorph]

That's not the Zune development cycle at all. It's "look how MS fucked up for years before they finally got it right with Zune, except we published this article before the Zune was released and don't actually know anything about it, but we're going to talk like we do anyway."

P.S. - A "little" Apple biased?

P.P.S - They all suck ass compared to Cowon/iAudio.

[Gieve]

Ignoring the article for a second then, lets focus on some facts:

Initial microsoft announcement:

1) nebulous plans to deliver an iPod Killer, revealing a new brand name but not showing off any features.
2) new DRM and wireless sharing features, without specifying how they would work. They end up changing the spec again, and again, in attempts to disassociate themselves with failing DRM brand names.

The web goes wild with speculative stories of how it’s inevitable that Microsoft will take over the iPod. The pundits imagine a spectacular future of Zune development potential in 2007, including a Zune phone.

Reality: Details slowly emerged that

1) The Zune will break compatibility with PlaysForSure DRM and abandon partner's music stores.
2) The Zune will be a total reheating of an existing failure in the market: the Toshiba Gigabeat S.
3) The repackaging would copy the look of the iPod but its copycat clickwheel would really just be a round switch.
4) A big new feature would be a slightly larger display of the same resolution as the iPod.
5) Nobody could know the price, battery life, physical size, or other competitive details in advance.

This stuff really isnt opinion, it's fact. Also, they also released far far far far too late. People have 100's of dollars invested in their itunes collections. Start over? Yeah. Right.

I just want to make it clear I am not an apple fanboi, but itunes, ipod and the rest of the media tools you find with apple products are just fucking EASY. No codecs, license shit or DRM (yet). Why would I even consider switching? I don't even like steve jobs, but he dam sure knows what people want, and he's dam good at using his power to influence the RIAA to do what he wants.

Now if only he'll start a cable company and man up against comcast ...

[Kiroy]

Vorph pretty much summed it up when he mentioned Cowon. Not really much point in getting the ipod or the zune.

And most people I know who have a zune are just fine with em.

[Vorph]

Originally Posted by Gieve

People have 100's of dollars invested in their itunes collections. Start over? Yeah. Right.

That's a reason to hate Apple, not MS, to me. If Apple was such a great champion of the people they would allow other companies to play FairPlay protected media.

I just want to make it clear I am not an apple fanboi, but itunes, ipod and the rest of the media tools you find with apple products are just fucking EASY. No codecs, license shit or DRM (yet). Why would I even consider switching? I don't even like steve jobs, but he dam sure knows what people want, and he's dam good at using his power to influence the RIAA to do what he wants.

I'm not sure what you're talking about with DRM... there is no more or no less DRM in the Zune than in the iPod. They both have it for music you buy online (and they're both equally bad at stomping on consumers' Fair Use rights other than the handful of DRM-free releases on iTunes), neither one requires it to be added to your own cd rips, and they both make it a pain in the ass to use the device without their proprietary software. Unlike Cowon products which have no DRM at all and let you mount the device as external storage.

[xilsharn]

Originally Posted by Gieve

Ignoring the article for a second then, lets focus on some facts:

Initial microsoft announcement:

1) nebulous plans to deliver an iPod Killer, revealing a new brand name but not showing off any features.
2) new DRM and wireless sharing features, without specifying how they would work. They end up changing the spec again, and again, in attempts to disassociate themselves with failing DRM brand names.

The web goes wild with speculative stories of how it’s inevitable that Microsoft will take over the iPod. The pundits imagine a spectacular future of Zune development potential in 2007, including a Zune phone.

Reality: Details slowly emerged that

1) The Zune will break compatibility with PlaysForSure DRM and abandon partner's music stores.
2) The Zune will be a total reheating of an existing failure in the market: the Toshiba Gigabeat S.
3) The repackaging would copy the look of the iPod but its copycat clickwheel would really just be a round switch.
4) A big new feature would be a slightly larger display of the same resolution as the iPod.
5) Nobody could know the price, battery life, physical size, or other competitive details in advance.

This stuff really isnt opinion, it's fact. Also, they also released far far far far too late. People have 100's of dollars invested in their itunes collections. Start over? Yeah. Right.

I just want to make it clear I am not an apple fanboi, but itunes, ipod and the rest of the media tools you find with apple products are just fucking EASY. No codecs, license shit or DRM (yet). Why would I even consider switching? I don't even like steve jobs, but he dam sure knows what people want, and he's dam good at using his power to influence the RIAA to do what he wants.

Now if only he'll start a cable company and man up against comcast ...

Have you ever even used a Zune?

I have a Zune, have had it for about 7 months now, and I love it. I used to have an iPod, I really liked that too. The point is that the iPod and the Zune as pieces of hardware are functionally the same shit. The only real difference is some minor ones between Zune Marketplace and iTunes. They did make some bad decisions, esp. concerning PlayForSure.

But honestly, the Zune is actually a good piece of gear. Also, way to cry about shit from last summer. You're bitching about the hype surrounding the pre-release Zune. The Zune was released in, what, August? This thread is fucking retarded. I'm willing to concede that the Zune Marketplace has a lot of issues, and that wifi is not achieving its full potential. But jesus, the Zune is essentially the same thing as the iPod. I'm confused as to why you're bitching about this NOW.

[Millie]

Originally Posted by Vorph

...the handful of DRM-free releases on iTunes)...

All new music on the iTunes store is available in DRM-free form, if I'm not mistaken.

Originally Posted by Vorph

Unlike Cowon products which have no DRM at all and let you mount the device as external storage.

You can use the iPod as an external storage device / HD if you're so inclined. Not sure about the Zune, because I don't own one. But you definitely can with an iPod.

[Vorph]

Originally Posted by Millie

All new music on the iTunes store is available in DRM-free form, if I'm not mistaken.

Pretty sure EMI is still the only label to agree to DRM-free music on iTunes.

You can use the iPod as an external storage device / HD if you're so inclined. Not sure about the Zune, because I don't own one. But you definitely can with an iPod.

The catch is being able to play songs loaded onto the device that way, which the Cowon players can do and [last I heard] iPod and Zune cannot. Well, unless you replace the iPod's firmware with Rockbox, that is. If Rockbox was more stable and didn't cause problems on iPods, I'd hate them a lot less.

[Kiroy]

Originally Posted by Millie

All new music on the iTunes store is available in DRM-free form, if I'm not mistaken.

I thought that was with participating labels, and for an added cost... ironicly enough I'm to lazy to look, but not to lazy to post about it.

[Millie]

Well, sucks to both of you!!!1

[Kiroy]

I looked. They're $1.29, it's EMI only, and although it's DRM free, the songs still have your user information (Full name, address, email, ect) imbedded, so don't go P2P'n those puppies, or you are...

COMPRIMISED

All that adds up to a pretty bogus feature if you ask me.

I'd just like to add again, if you go Cowon you don't go back. For serious.

[Gieve]

Hrmm, I'll have to check out cowan.

Thanks for the tips

[Kolle]

doesn't seem right that so many people get filthy rich off music when they can't play or sing

(punchline is all yours)

[Moontayle]

My only gripe about my iPod (and a huge one at that), is that I can put as much music as I want on it, but once it's there I can't take it off again. It's like a mini Hotel California.

I ended up buying MediaPilot, a cheapo program which allows me to backup iPod songs, which I can then re-import into iTunes and burn off to a disk, which I can then rip into a direct MP3 format without DRM. Such hoop jumping...

[xilsharn]

Are you sure? On the Zune I know you can reverse-sync any DRM-free music to another computer.