Ron Paul, does he stand a chance?

[chaos]

At the beginning of this thread we were talking 1-2%, now we're talking 6-7%. Definitely a positive thing imo, talk about progressive, this ancient old guy is the most progressive one of the bunch. Using ideas from the 1700s. Funny.

[rinthea]

Originally Posted by Khorum

Vocal majority? Six, what, maybe seven percent is a vocal majority? Listen, even if Ron Paul becomes accomodating on global hegemony, he will STILL be the lamb amongst wolves out there.

I haven't even MENTIONED his oddball stuff, I can't imagine the sort of sordid shit Hilary's brownshirts will stir up about Paul's gun rights stance, or his damned gold standard stance.

I think Paul can take some of that cash and grow his team into a formidable organization that's still 'grass roots' but has genuine national scope. Howard Dean did it with his internet meme campaign, we know it's possible. And Dean couldn't have DREAMED of a 4.3 million internet fundraiser. But even if he comes out with a lean mean national organization, he's STILL vulnerable for his 'oddball' positions unless he goes on the offensive pretty much all the time.

If he's vulnerable, what does that make Hillary?

[Soriak]

Two new polls have him at 4% and 6% respectively: Pollster.com

We'll see if it's a longer trend, he had 4% and 5% before.

[Aulirophile]

Originally Posted by Khorum

Vocal majority? Six, what, maybe seven percent is a vocal majority? Listen, even if Ron Paul becomes accomodating on global hegemony, he will STILL be the lamb amongst wolves out there.

I haven't even MENTIONED his oddball stuff, I can't imagine the sort of sordid shit Hilary's brownshirts will stir up about Paul's gun rights stance, or his damned gold standard stance.

I think Paul can take some of that cash and grow his team into a formidable organization that's still 'grass roots' but has genuine national scope. Howard Dean did it with his internet meme campaign, we know it's possible. And Dean couldn't have DREAMED of a 4.3 million internet fundraiser. But even if he comes out with a lean mean national organization, he's STILL vulnerable for his 'oddball' positions unless he goes on the offensive pretty much all the time.

Yes. Polls are only as good as the methods used to take them. Most of the numbers are for registered Republicans, and they only use people who've been registered for a year or more for those polls. With the massive shrinkage in registered Republicans and then fact that a large number of been registering Republican specifically to vote for Ron Paul, you have a very strange phenomenon where polls don't adequately reflect what voting will be like. Barring hanky-panky of any kind.

Plus, you know, the large number of people who have never, previously, registered to vote at all and who support him. Roughly ~500k people nationwide. I'm highballing that a bit, but a lower number seems unreasonable given the number of signs being printed up by individuals and the number of people who've donated to his campaign. A large portion of the troops will vote for him as well (reflected by him being the candidate with the most money contributed from the troops) and they aren't usually polled, so that is an easy ~3% right there.

Even assuming the average American is a mouthbreathing idiot, everyone hates inflation. Anyone who brings up his "oddball" stance will start with the gold standard and all he has to do is say it stops inflation. There are to many easy "well it fixes this thing that everyone hates" sound bites to all his stances to make those attacks effective to stupid people, and intelligent people don't care because voting for someone with principals is just to nice a change of pace.

Besides, Hillary is running on Universal Healthcare. An issue important to a huge part of her voting base, Ron Paul will destroy her in that arena. If he wins the nomination, defeating whatever the Dems put up will be easy. I'm far more worried about the G.O.P.s political maneuvering to make sure he doesn't get nominated, like the quick change of state laws making it impossible to vote in the primaries.

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by Aulirophile

Even assuming the average American is a mouthbreathing idiot, everyone hates inflation. Anyone who brings up his "oddball" stance will start with the gold standard and all he has to do is say it stops inflation. There are to many easy "well it fixes this thing that everyone hates" sound bites to all his stances to make those attacks effective to stupid people, and intelligent people don't care because voting for someone with principals is just to nice a change of pace.

I don't know if you've just encased yourself in layers of academic activism or if you're just overdosing on Paul's coolaid here, but you are NOT gonna have the "mouthbreathing" masses to sit still long enough just so you can calmly explain Vienna-School fiduciary theory to them and show them how reverting to bullion will control inflation. It's not something you can condense down to a cute 30-second tv spot either.

And it's just too easy for anyone---not even Clinton, any of his Republican buddies---to take his bullionist position and turn it into a crazy-eyed UFO/Conspiracy/Michigan Militia anti-globalist insanity. They will make him look like a crazy old man in ways that I think you're fervently trying to ignore. It won't take much effort either, they'll roll out Steve Forbes, Pat Buchanan and all the other weirdos that stick out for Paul and use them against him.

You KNOW this will happen. I'm sure pretty much everyone does. Question is, is there anyone in Paul's camp, or his "organization", who is pragmatic and realist enough to prepare and confront it? The answer to THAT is looking like a resounding "NO".

[Aulirophile]

Originally Posted by Khorum

I don't know if you've just encased yourself in layers of academic activism or if you're just overdosing on Paul's coolaid here, but you are NOT gonna have the "mouthbreathing" masses to sit still long enough just so you can calmly explain Vienna-School fiduciary theory to them and show them how reverting to bullion will control inflation. It's not something you can condense down to a cute 30-second tv spot either.

"My economic policies will stop inflation." 5-second TV spot. I've already convinced a dozen or so people to vote for him with that simple sentence, and they were the lowest class of American moron: PWT from the South. They don't have to understand WHY, just tell them that it does and they'll be all up ons. It isn't a statement anyone is going to argue with either, because then a lot of economists will correct them just for accuracies sake.

Not to mention how many Americans love Greenspan. If Greenspan endorses Ron Paul because of his gold standard, a ton of people would vote for him and attacking any of his economic policies from that day forward would be seen as an attack on Greenspan. Not a good idea.

I think we're going around in circles at this point. Ron Paul is impossible to attack and win, for a large variety of reasons, which is why they are doing background maneuvering to prevent the large body of people who support him but aren't registered Republican from voting in the primary. Time will tell, no point in arguing about it. But I don't forsee any attacks on the man turning out well.

[Soriak]

I have no doubt that somewhere, people making $50k/year with piles of student loans or other debt will think of themselves as part of the national middle class and laugh that they'd no longer have to pay for those leeching poor They'll love the "no inflation" ads and turn out as huge Ron Paul supporters. Just for them, I really wish that he actually wins.

[Gahid]

4-6% the revolution has come.


srsly kids, ron paul is a publicity stunt for the Libertarian Party. The Libertarian Party is kind of cool - low taxes, personal freedom, global indifference_ and they throw by far the best political victory parties. And that is a fact.

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by Aulirophile

"My economic policies will stop inflation." 5-second TV spot.

Ron Paul is impossible to attack and win, for a large variety of reasons, which is why they are doing background maneuvering to prevent the large body of people who support him but aren't registered Republican from voting in the primary.

Have you heard of a single politician who doesn't say "My economic policies will stop inflation"? That's up there on the cliche-o-meter with "My Fellow Americans..."

You're right that we're gonna end up going in circles, especially when you insist that Ron Paul is unassailable when in fact, not only is NOONE ever unassailable but Ron Paul drags a whole damned TRAIN of nutjob baggage behind him that will require either the finesse of a Dick Morris to cook into digestibility or the brutality of a Karl Rove to keep his opponents on the defensive.

It's looking like you guys are dragging in the dregs of the anarchist left with folks like Gahid and Grobbee now too, how does THAT work out with your grass-roots evangelization efforts? As if Paul wasn't going to be EVISCERATED non-stop for seeming like a senile old crackpot whenever he invokes Lysander Spooner or breaks out his bullionist agenda and gun rights positions, now he'll have to explain to the suburban political center why he has topless white coeds with dreadlocks tattooing his face on their tits.

[darksensei]

The only person trying to eviscerate him here is you, and I guess you can throw in Glenn Beck too for having his show basically say Ron Paul supporters support Islamic fascism, whatever the fuck that term is supposed to mean. Just a while ago when he wasn't showing upward movement in polls, the discourse was civil here. Now for whatever reason you've turned to anarchists support him, etc, etc. Who cares? The politician is running not his supporters, and anarchists supporting him because of his limited government views is way better then some of Obama's supporters supporting him because he's black, and Clinton's because she's a woman.

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by darksensei

Islamic fascism, whatever the fuck that term is supposed to mean..

Iran.

[Ancalagon]

Originally Posted by Gahid

4-6% the revolution has come.


srsly kids, ron paul is a publicity stunt for the Libertarian Party. The Libertarian Party is kind of cool - low taxes, personal freedom, global indifference_ and they throw by far the best political victory parties. And that is a fact.

Saying something enough times does not make it true. Substantiate this assertion or stop blathering.

Ron Paul, in addition to genuinely trying to win, is certainly trying to -- and succeeding at -- promulgating libertarian ideals. But he is in no way shilling for the official Libertarian Party, who he is not currently affiliated with.

[Tristinn]

Originally Posted by Khorum

Iran.

Actually it is just a racist Neocon GOP Talking point to scare moronic fucktards with no critical thinking ability to vote for them.

[Khorum]

Originally Posted by Tristinn

Actually it is just a racist Neocon GOP Talking point to scare moronic fucktards with no critical thinking ability to vote for them.

You're giving moronic fucktards a whole lot of credit if you think we would need to fabricate an oppressive form of government that literally enforces a rigid, medieval form of Sharia law in order to fool them into voting for us. I mean, sure, that WOULD work, it's certainly plausible. Shit, if someone told me that such a system existed on the earth I'd certainly expend some effort trying to pick the right folks to go America on its ass pronto.

The more I think about it, the more frightening that imaginary regime would be. Sharia as interpretted by the shiite haditha scholars is spectacularly oppressive. They'd probably hang imaginary gay kids, on construction cranes because the trees are better regarded than human life. Hell, an imaginary regime like that would even hang teen rape victims for 'crimes against chastity' while their rapists get a slap on the wrist.

On second thought, that's kinda unbelievable. Noone would really buy this whole 'islamo-fascism' thing with fantastical hyperbole like that. We would just stick to commie infiltration or flouridation of our bodily fluids or something.

[Avellon]

We need more arguments like this for Ron Paul.

Ron Paul, is all I'm sayin