Is racial profiling a necessity these days?

[Dis]

No need to explain the going ons of today. Curious what the general consensus is on racial profiling of arab descent, and or muslims in general. Should civil police, airport security, and federal agencies keep a closer eye on muslims as opposed to someone who is anglo, or hispanic? Going so far as to keep mosques and any affliated group(s) tapped on any form of communication?

[Kasonic]

In my opinion racial profiling is a far superior tactic than disallowing toothpicks, nail clippers, and any liquid substance whatsoever from commercial flights via extremely lengthy and numerous baggage checks.

IF MARGARET GETS THAT CALAMINE LOTION TO THE COCKPIT, THE TERRORISTS WIN

[Duppin]

I give this thread three pages before people like Phoenix and Algrinon turn it into an online KKK meeting.

But, to answer your question more directly; no, racial profiling isn't in any way, shape, or form necessary. This is for three reasons:

1) Not everyone who is Muslim looks like the stereotypical Middle Easterner. I have several Muslim friends, and they exhibit plenty of variation in what they look like. You can't realistically point at people and say "that guy looks like a terrorist".

2) Conversely, a lot of people who look like what most people think of as what a Muslim looks like, are actually something very different, such as Sikhs, etc.

3) The people running terrorist organizations aren't stupid. They will very deliberately try to find people who don't fit the stereotype when choosing pepole to carry out their operations.

Racial profiling only sounds good if you look at things very, very superficially, or are looking for an excuse to single out people who look different than you.

[Faltigoth]

How then do you find people?

Even today, something tells me that the people who were busted trying to blow up those flights this morning weren't named Tom Mills and Johnny Stevens and such. You are going to be seeing alot of Abu Mohammed and such when those names are released.

Fact: Islamic fundamentalists are using the racial tolerance and non-discrimination policies of any kind in the US and Western nations to infiltrate them with the intent of committing acts of terror.

In light of that, how the hell do you root them out without compromising one of our freedoms or another? Do you just ignore everyone's background and race, and pray to God that you catch the next plot before it blows up in your face, or do you actively pursue certain ethnicities/religions to make sure they are on the straight and narrow?

The main enemy of the US today is no longer endless formations of Soviet tanks, nor even the countless well-trained infantry of China, nor the missiles of North Korea. It is fanatical religious believers who are average people, for the most part, except that they think killing Americans gets them virgins in heaven and they are smart enough to build bombs out of very common shit.

We have to do something to identify folks like that. Its a shitty, shitty thing when terrorists are, in essence, defeating the military and economic might of the West through fear of attack - by forcing their governments to erode the freedoms that made them great in the first place, in order to attempt to locate them. A lose lose situation all around. No profiling, we constantly live in fear of someone slipping in and detonating a bomb at the Super Bowl or some shit. Profiling, and we've just pissed on one of the great freedoms of the US, but we stand alot better chance of catching someone who might be trying to kill people.

Racial profiling is wrong, it screams against everything I believe is right; but something has to be done, and it is hard to fight an enemy who can turn your greatest strength into your greatest vulnerability.

[Duppin]

I can see your argument, Faltigoth.

I guess I'm just not so much of a pussy that I'm willing to give up the freedoms that this country was founded on, and that we're supposed to be trying to defend, just so I can sleep a little better at night.

That is /exactly/ what the people who did 9/11 were trying to make happen, and I won't personally give them that victory even though my country already has.

(note: not calling you a pussy in specific)

[Dis]

Different ballgame imo.

I think we all know that most Americans are willing to die for our freedom. A very masculine, honorable notion. But then the question is raised, are you prepared to sacrifice your woman and children for your freedom. People's response, mainly the men of the United States (let's face it, that is who is running this country even in modern times) differ when you talk about their family versus sacrificing yourself.

Your mother/father dies, your son or daughter dies, or your wife dies. Then the question is raised to us all, are you will to sacrifice some of your freedoms in order to capture/KILL those who would indiscriminately harm your fellow citizens whether close to you personally or abroad in other countries.

At what point will it come to when we as a nation say enough is enough, and tell these terrorist organizations that for everytime you strike at the heart of our country through terror or killing of innocent civilians, we will repay that harm a hundred fold on your home countries?

Duppin - I understand your PoV, but I am guessing this still hasnt affected you personally enough to change your opinion on when looking at associations that are suspect (IE muslims) should rightfully have more pressure brought to bear on them in the form of observation, monitoring, and in some cases detention?

I will agree that there has to be some kind of check in place, but my opinions of muslims in general continue to slide more and more down the more I see them do shit like this. If they arent fighting the US or Isreal or western countries in general they are killing themselves.

I wonder how much sympathy muslims would have had in the ethnic cleansing incidents in Bosinia if that happened today rather than later? Heartless to say that, but current news makes me want to be heartless to them. I am starting to feel like they are trying to kill me, especially considering the fact that I travel as much as I do.

[Eomer]

No need to explain the going ons of today. Curious what the general consensus is on racial profiling of arab descent, and or muslims in general. Should civil police, airport security, and federal agencies keep a closer eye on muslims as opposed to someone who is anglo, or hispanic? Going so far as to keep mosques and any affliated group(s) tapped on any form of communication?

You realize that "Muslim" is not a race right? I assume you meant Arab. Well, not all Arabs are Muslim. And not all Muslims are Arab. I mean, what happens if Cat Stevens tries to smuggle a bomb onto an airplane?! He'd just slip right through! If he hadn't been placed on terrorist watch lists because he was a prominent Muslim, that is.

I'm really pretty split down the middle on this, actually. Common sense would dictate that yeah, it's probably not worth patting down an 80 year old white granny and letting a 30 year old, shifty eyed Arab through (while the black dude's being beaten in an interrogation room). But at the same time, if racial profiling is used and the focus is narrowed too much, the blinders could be exploited by terrorists who choose caucasian looking operatives to do their dirty work.

I mean shit, my last girlfriend was half Lebanese. Blonde haired, blue eyed, pale skinned Lebanese. Her dad was full Lebanese, and looked pretty much the same as my dad, who is of French heritage. If she hadn't taken me to a Lebanese restaurant and mentioned that, I'd never have known for even a second I was dating a filthy Leb.

[Dis]

It was inference to Arab, a majority of muslims are Arabic (asian/african). You caught me in a generalizition. Either way you got the meaning of the title. Profiling in general.

[Dis]

Originally Posted by Eomer

You realize that "Muslim" is not a race right? I assume you meant Arab. Well, not all Arabs are Muslim. And not all Muslims are Arab. I mean, what happens if Cat Stevens tries to smuggle a bomb onto an airplane?! He'd just slip right through! If he hadn't been placed on terrorist watch lists because he was a prominent Muslim, that is.

I'm really pretty split down the middle on this, actually. Common sense would dictate that yeah, it's probably not worth patting down an 80 year old white granny and letting a 30 year old, shifty eyed Arab through (while the black dude's being beaten in an interrogation room). But at the same time, if racial profiling is used and the focus is narrowed too much, the blinders could be exploited by terrorists who choose caucasian looking operatives to do their dirty work.

I mean shit, my last girlfriend was half Lebanese. Blonde haired, blue eyed, pale skinned Lebanese. Her dad was full Lebanese, and looked pretty much the same as my dad, who is of French heritage. If she hadn't taken me to a Lebanese restaurant and mentioned that, I'd never have known for even a second I was dating a filthy Leb.

Friends of friends of friends Eomer. Thats how it is done. You have one person who is affliated to a muslim organization or is not native to the country of origin who is in fact muslim, then you start looking at his/her friends, then you look at the friends of friends, doing background checks, tapping, monitoring for odd occurances in communication in general. You dont have to look (physically) the part to fit a profile Eomer, sometimes you can fit a profile by who you associate with or are affiliated with.

[Eomer]

To me that's not racial profiling then, that's standard detective/intelligence work. When someone says "racial profiling", I'm thinking they're talking about a lineup for check in at an airline where they pull out 80% Arab looking guys, and the last 20% they do randomly.

[Dis]

Originally Posted by Eomer

To me that's not racial profiling then, that's standard detective/intelligence work. When someone says "racial profiling", I'm thinking they're talking about a lineup for check in at an airline where they pull out 80% Arab looking guys, and the last 20% they do randomly.

The origin is what makes it profiling. You are targetting muslims for no other reason than that they are in fact muslims, pretty much trickles out from there. Associations with others generally you tend to find that muslims associate with other muslims, always some exceptions, but generally. Either way it is profiling in one form or another.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Duppin

I give this thread three pages before people like Phoenix and Algrinon turn it into an online KKK meeting.

Im still waiting for the KC lights on my 4x4 .

I guess I'm just not so much of a pussy that I'm willing to give up the freedoms that this country was founded on, and that we're supposed to be trying to defend, just so I can sleep a little better at night.

And its becase of faggots like you I get stopped by some dumb fuck TSA agent who couldnt shoot the broadside of a barn while wearing my charlies after just graduating from bootcamp. Last time I checked, governments only take freedoms away, they never give them back.

As for racial profiling? Just let people carry firearms onto planes. If Muhammed wants to try and hijack it, he just has to get threw 200 or so people willing to give him a lead salad.

[Duppin]

I guess I was two pages too generous.

[Eomer]

Firearms on planes! Why didn't someone think of this sooner!

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Eomer

Firearms on planes! Why didn't someone think of this sooner!

Because obviously government agents are the only ones professional enough to handle firearms!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeGD7r6s-zU

But in all seriousness, would pocket knives/box cutter style weapons in the hands of passengers scare you?