The November elections, Diebold, and you.

[EnigmaticParadigm]

Give me a second to figure out which way this tinfoil hat goes on...wait...errr...ah, there we go *pop*.

So, it is fast becomming election time again. Soon the TV will be flooded with everyone's favorite commercials nonstop.

What is everyone's take on Diebold? Will they count ballots again this election? Only in specific states/ cities/ districts/ etc? Will anyone be monitoring these machines for errors? Will there be a paper trail? Does anyone care?

I dunno. As far as conspiracy theories go, I would like to think that I laugh at almost all of them. However, this Diebold thing has always struck me as dirty. Whether it is a Republican or Democrat backed company is of little difference. If someone is using a non-transparent system to tally votes, I think everyone should be going "wtf." Just my opinion though.

Curious to see what, if any, drama will unfold due to this company come November. Thoughts?

[Eomer]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: what in the fuck is wrong with paper ballots and a pen/pencil/felt marker? Works fine up here, but maybe it's just cause we're backwards. I don't know. Haven't had any elections stolen lately, either.

[Zaniel]

Absolutely the worst thing to happen to voting anywhere in the last century. Falsifiable, hackable, corruptable. They're trying to introduce it here in Australia and I pray it never gets started.

A lot of media pundits love the idea so they can have their ADD instant results to gab about on TV during election night. Fuck that, I'll take a secure election and get my full results 24 hours later thank you.

Not to mention in the specific case of Diebold they've got:
1) The CEO as a close personal friend of Bush's and major Republican donor
2) Him specifically and publically stating that he'll do anything to ensure a Republican win (WTF?)
3) Diebold programmers making unchecked, uncertified changes to the software without passing those changes through the various state's electoral groups
4) Hacking demonstrations showing easy remote manipulation of the machines and results.

Fuck Diebold, paper ballots ftw.

PS: This isn't just a Republican thing, no one should ever trust any group that says they want to use this shit no matter who they are. Even if it was your local mayoral or union elections.

[Tea on tuesday]

As someone who actually had to use a Diebold machine in 2004, it's my obligation to say, "Fuck you, Diebold, seriously...fuck you."

[Rune]

Fuck a company that hooks up modems, telephone lines to machines that aren't even fucking supposed to be linked to anything. I remember a guy hacking one of those diebold machines in the florida election when he was voting, and he got it to show that it wasn't even fucking recording votes. JUST BY HITTING RANDOM SHIT, he accessed the administrator panel. And recorded it on all camera.

[James]

Yeah, I'm not sure I trust the machines. Not sure I trust people to do the job either. Needs a better system than either, imo.

[Zaniel]

People are fine, you have a counter from the local elections office and 2 scrutineers, one from each party looking over their shoulder (or more in marginal electorates). Guaranteed no funny business.

[Ronne]

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm

Interesting stuff, if you believe it. I personally hate the Diebold things. I refused to vote last election because the Diebold was our only option, and I may continue doing so. Having your software not be viewable by election officials under the guise of "trade secrets" is such crap. It's our fucking government, you either have full visibility or gtfo. Idealy anyway, reality seems a bit different...

[Grimble]

And people wonder why voter turnout isn't higher....

Seriously folks...the United States is under siege. Not by terrorist but by big business special interest groups that continuosuly fuck us over in every way possibly. I don't understand why people aren't rising up against this more.

"Fear will keep them in line." A couple thousand people died on September 11, and it was certainly a tragedy...but how many tens of thousands of people died in Katrina that could have easily been saved? How many of our kids have died in Iraq? How much have we spent in that war that could have been used to help Katrina victims/the poor here/education/medicare/the elderly/anything else actually pertaining to OUR OWN country???

Instead we've chosen to let fear take hold. To place wiretaps that are very likely unconstitutional. To spend billions on a war that noone knows why we are really fighting. To fight "indecency" on TV when pre-teens are having sex and selling drugs on the streets. To "hold teachers accountable" when they are paid less than nearly all other college graduates, but work far harder and with more responsibility. To allow torture of prisoners just because "the other side does it so we can too." To give the appearance of safety by checking every 10th grandmother who tries to board a plane or cross the border. To continue tax cuts for the top 5% while still trying to support mutiple international wars and a domestic natural disaster the likes of which we have never seen. To eliminate estate taxes for rich people so their spoiled kids can collect more money to squander while the poor go hungry. To worry about gay people having monogomous relationships instead of spreading STDs. To run up unbelievable national debts for our children to pay back but we won't have to worry about because we will be dead or elderly and no longer paying taxes. To ignore the fact that college tuition is going up exponentially along with demand for people with college degrees, yet students without rich parents can't afford tuition. To ignore the increasing education and wage gap among not just the races but among economic classes.

I talked to my friend the other day who is hardcore right-wing Republican. Always has been, and probably always will be. Even he has turned on the way things are being done, or more appropriately NOT done, in Congress.

Yet there is just extreme apathy on the part of the American people. No real protests. No real anger.

And its not like the Democrats are offering anything better. They are just as corrupt as the Repulicans. But its time people actually stood up and did something because it is seriously getting ridiculous and things are heading downhill quick. What can we do to take back this country for the American people before all hope is completely lost??

/soapbox off

[Lucane Darkseraphim]

I have no patience for people who are on crusades against big business yet continually purchase big business' evil goods.

But maybe I am the only one who feels this way.

"but how many tens of thousands of people died in Katrina that could have easily been saved?"

How many could have under their own will evacuated the city days in advance?

"How many of our kids have died in Iraq?"

How many of those were unwillfully signed up to serve in the armed forces?

"To ignore the fact that college tuition is going up exponentially along with demand for people with college degrees, yet students without rich parents can't afford tuition."

Incorrect. Most every state, if not every state, has instate full scholarships that are granted for decent GPA's and SAT's. These are things any student that is capable of handling college can attain. Besides, community colleges are ubiquitous.

"To ignore the increasing education and wage gap among not just the races but among economic classes."

Wealth and education are not rights but rather commodities. Plus the people who put in the effort reap the benefits. No where in this country is there a place in which someone with true motivation and will can be held back and forced into a low paying job. The reason there is a gap between the rich and poor is because most of the population did not have goals set at a young age. Excluding the few exceptions, it is too late to be exceedingly wealthy at the age of 30. The drive to wealth begins at a young age... superb grades in high school to be accepted into a prestigious college... superb grades in college and outside internships to get accepted into the lucrative high paying job. And even then it does not stop. 200k+ a year does not guarantee wealth if you spend it frivolously. Investment is a must. That is a huge reason why there is a gap. Most of society would rather buy a brand new wide screen high def tv rather than place it into high yield bonds and "safe" conservative stocks. The lack of investment and foresight is why social security is a crippling vice for America.

I also do not even want to hear about it being difficult for a poor, underprivileged teen to get into the big prestigious colleges; it is a glaring fact that never before has it been easier than it is now. There are so many scholarships out there that you'd be boggled by where this money can possibly be coming from.

We are all the same people. Some however have the drive and motivation to strive to be at the top while others are complacent with mediocrity. And unfortunately some of those people would rather bitch about the perceived injustices rather than note that they are at fault for their own misfortunes.

In short, personal responsibility is something this country (and world) is still lacking in. Sad that we still resort to elementary finger pointing rather than realizing that we are to blame for what happens to ourselves (on a global view... obviously we can not blame ourselves for being hit by a truck or murdered while sleeping).

Edit: I would like to add in that I do agree with some of your points. For example, the fight against homosexuality is a ridiculous waste of time. The bigots' time could better be spent being productive within the community rather than creating divides between humanity.

----

Sorry for being off topic. As for Diebold and voting, I believe that electronic voting is a step in the right direction. With time it will become more fine tuned and secure. Until then those who love conspiracies will need to suffer from paranoia until all kinks are worked out of the system.

[Zaniel]

Originally Posted by Grimble

And its not like the Democrats are offering anything better. They are just as corrupt as the Repulicans. But its time people actually stood up and did something because it is seriously getting ridiculous and things are heading downhill quick. What can we do to take back this country for the American people before all hope is completely lost??

You can't, you're fucked. Look, there's an old saying that goes along the lines of "The people get the government they deserve".

Ever since the 80s (starting with Reagan) the government and media/business have been teaching the population that "Trickle Down Bastardry" and "Greed is Good" are the way to go. After decades of this no one is interested in anything but trampling the fuck out of whoever they need to in order to become rich/powerful/on TV.

The politicians haven't changed, they've always been backstabbing bastards ever since Caesar crossed the river and Brutus shanked him on the steps of the Senate. It's the basic population that have changed. So unless you can think of some way of reversing a generation of slide into greed and retardation via failing education then I suggest the only thing you are likely to be able to do is sit back and enjoy the ride.

Either that or start the Revolution

[Ronne]

A revolution would be easy, just maraud from Wal-Mart to Wal-Mart to keep stocked on supplies and weapons.

[Tripamang]

Blaming big business is a cop out, it's apathy that's your fucking problem. You let big business walk all over you, you can put them in line but you have to actually stand up to them. For whatever reason we've created a couple generation of complete pussies who are totally unwilling to stand up and say no. Copyright laws, consititutional violations, DRM all of it, takes away from your freedom and culture but people are just so apathetic.

No one offers an alternative, no one stands up and says "This isn't the country I want to live in". We get pissed off but we carry on our daily routine and for that reason and that reason alone is why you don't have the America that you want. Change is possible, but you have to make people believe and understand you, that's something that a lot of people are just not motivated to do.

I could go on for pages, but theres a lot more things than simply voting that can change America and make it a better place to live in.

[Luthair]

Diebold promised Ohio to Bush.

Here's an article from Wired: http://wired-vig.wired.com/wired/arc....01/evote.html


I seem to recall they had another one but couldn't find it.

[Zaniel]

Originally Posted by Tripamang

No one offers an alternative, no one stands up and says "This isn't the country I want to live in". We get pissed off but we carry on our daily routine and for that reason and that reason alone is why you don't have the America that you want. Change is possible, but you have to make people believe and understand you, that's something that a lot of people are just not motivated to do.

See I believe it's gone far further than this. It isn't just that people are apathetic it's that they've been taught that the current way is the right way. If someone stands up today and says "XYZ just isn't fucking right either constitutionally or morally as a human being" they don't just get ignored, they actually get shouted down.

People believe that being spied on/lied to by your government and crushed by your bosses is right, because with any luck and a bit of a trick they'll be able to swing a job as a spier/lier/crusher and who wouldn't want the perks that come with having clawed your way to the top, so long suckers.