New Immigration laws up for vote...

Cathan · 03-25-2006, 06:32 PM

I hear Bush is pushing for new immigration laws that make it a felony to be in the United States as an illegal alien and a serious crime to employ illegal aliens. Also this bill would build a fence spanning much of the U.S./Mexico border to help keep illegal aliens out.

Personally I'm all for it. There has been a lot of protest but it seems like the majority of it comes from hispanics. I say fuck em if they can't enter the country legally they shouldn't be here. On MSN there's a story I read where one guy says they want to treat us like criminals for being here when all we want to do is work. Yeah I hate it for ya buddy but if you're here illegally then fucking hello!!!! YOU ARE A CRIMINAL!!!

As for making it a felony I don't know how much good that will really do. It's not like we want them as felons in our jails just for crossing the border. Mexico certainly isn't going to jail all of the illegal aliens that cross the border and we boot out. Personally I think we should police the border like anyone trying to cross it illegally can be shot on site as if they are a terrorist lol. Motherfucker would think twice then lol. Then we would have jobs for prior military that were good marksmen. Honestly though if they just used rubber bullets it would probably be enough of a deterrent...

I live in North Carolina which until about a year or 2 ago was the last state in the country to require a social security card to get a driver's license. Illegal aliens, which are 99% mexican (note how much of the vacant businesses have sprung up as mexican specialty stores), flocked here in droves because they could get licenses and regular jobs. After the law requiring a SS card was passed some thieves broke into a driver's license office in South Carolina and stole a driver's license printing machine and a shitload of blank ID cards.

A friend's wife was driving through an intersection where it was clearly marked that she had right of way, aka no stop sign or stop light in her direction. On the intersecting road there was a stop sign. A mexican guy ran the stop sign, hit my friend's wife and fucked her up for a while plus totalled their car. The mexican guy gets out and argues it's not his fault because in mexico that's not how traffic flows. I think down there it's based off whoever gets to the intersection first has right of way.

To me that's a prime example of why it is ABSOLUTELY MOTHERFUCKING NECESSARY TO HAVE TO BE A LEGAL RESIDENT AND!!!!!!!!! FOR US ALL TO SPEAK A COMMON LANGUAGE!!!!!!! I despise having grown up in a country where everything was English and English only to see businesses kissing illegal immigrant ass by putting spanish all over everything. If you go into one of the local hispanic stores they don't have english signs and they don't give a fuck if you can communicate with them or not in Spanish. Generally someone speaks spanish but they aren't going out of their way to make it easy for non-spanish speaking people to buy their goods like we are for them. When I was in Cali it pissed me off to no end to go into a convenience store and ask the clerk if they had an item or where an item was and he had no fucking clue what I just said. I'm sure the guy just wanted a job but what kind of ignorance is it that someone would hire a non-english speaking person to run their store if they can't tell a customer where the things are they want to buy? Should I be expected to speak Spanish, Arabic, and Indian in addition to my native English if I want to buy Pepto Bismol from the closest store in my area?

A bit to the other side of the spectrum I did see the South Park where they spoofed the whole illegal alien topic. I agree that most of the jobs they take aren't jobs many of us want. I'm cool with people wanting to come here and work and make a better life for themselves. That's what America was founded on. I think aliens from mexico should be allowed to apply for work permits on a yearly basis so they still get the benefits of working here and everyone is happy on that front. I also think after about 5 years of holding down a job they should be able to apply for citizenship if they have been good citizens. The catch22 is that they should be good citizens. If someone comes over on the work pass their first year and gets convicted of a crime, back to the motherland you go homie, and no more chances at joining our country. I don't mean a 2 or 3 strike plan either. I mean 1 chance and you're outta here. So walk a straight line or you better have a lot of loot saved up for a lawyer...

I hate the rest of the world isn't "the place to be" like the U.S. is but there has to be some control on immigration and illegals here to protect our safety and economy. England had a big problem with immigrants coming in with 0 intention of getting jobs. They would move to England and sign up for welfare because it was a better way of life than they had in their home country. I know the U.S. has some of that same bullshit going on here. Nothing pisses me off more than the thought that 1 red fucking cent goes to some lazy piece of shit sitting home while hard working Americans foot the bill.

Etadanik · 03-25-2006, 07:02 PM

Do you really understand how legality is defined with respect to immigration and how the forces that be shape the category in order to serve their own, exploitive interests with respect to immigrants? Do you really think that companies would "play nice" and hire an immigrant for five years straight so that he can get his citizenship and apply for job benefits that the company would not have to pay if they simply kicked your ass back to Mexico when your time was nearly up and hire someone new?

Of course not. Ignorance, as always, is bliss. The world is always black and white when you view it through checkerboard lenses.

Wrathcaster · 03-25-2006, 07:04 PM

I agree completely man; I lived in West Tennessee for nearly 19 years and the larger cities, especially Memphis, are rank with problems stemming directly from illegal immigration. The example you gave about convenient stores and spanish-only speaking workers there is dead on here: there's stores like that around my hometown, all of which are not necessarily spanish specialty shops (food, spices, etc.). Tried going into one to get some chorizo, couldn't even make a transaction for the dude because he wouldn't name a price. Finally I had to get my half-spanish girlfriend at the time to do it for me. Given the location fo the store, it was absolutely ridiculous that he didn't have a grasp enough of the language of the land to be capable to make a sale. That shit is just not cool.

Example: I went to a driving school before I got my license per my paren't request, noticed that the guy who ran it had a Spanish accent and that I was the only non-hispanic student of the school. I didn't think anything of it until I read in the paper a year later that the guy had been busted by the FBI for helping illegal immigrants obtain licenses.

Kolle · 03-25-2006, 07:17 PM

I grew up in the southeast, mostly rural areas. I rarely saw anyone hispanic. It was mostly white people and some black folks here and there. I moved to the southwest a few years ago and that's definately not the case anymore. I can't take two steps anywhere without seeing a hispanic. It seems like white, black, and any other race is a small minority. Actually I can't recall seeing more than a dozen black people.

I wouldn't mind this at all if it wasn't for something important that they aren't doing. They aren't trying to be Americans. It's more like they are trying to make the USA Southwest a part of Mexico. As I walk around just outside my door (I live in an area that's mostly hispanic) all I ever hear is spanish. If I pass by a group of kids they are speaking spanish. If I go to the store half the people I pass are speaking spanish. Most of the signs are english/spanish and some are spanish only. I get the feeling that in 50 years states like Arizona and New Mexico will be all spanish; every sign, every book, every tv station... It looks like at the current pace the USA might as well sign over these states to Mexico and make a new national border.

Take a look at the current protests. What do you see? They parade around with USA flags? No, they're carrying Mexico flags. They're also chanting 'mexico! mexico!' as I've seen reported in a few places. I get the impression these people don't give a shit about my country. They want to have a better life and I can understand that, but for fuck's sake If I decided to go live Italy or wherever I'd learn the fucking language and try to adopt at least some of the culture.

A little personal gripe is what they deem acceptable. I don't know if anyone else has this issue, but they are constantly trying to sell me food they made in their kitchen. This one guy pushes a cart around honking this extremely annoying horn trying to sell god knows what. I barely trust the cooking of people I know sometimes, much less strangers that can't speak english. I think after they started realizing who lived where I am they gave up knocking on my door trying to sell me tomales.

I know this kinda stuff can sound racist, but I don't see it that way. I feel like they are trying to force me to be something I'm not choosing to be. I'd have no room to complain If I moved to Mexico or some other Central/South American country.

I honestly wish they could build such a wall along the border that it would be impossible for anyone to cross. If they want to come into the country then do it the proper way. Why is that such a big fucking deal? Someone explain to me why this isn't an invading force, only they aren't all wearing the same uniform. They're taking over the area and forcing it to switch over to a different language and a different culture.

Zefah · 03-25-2006, 07:26 PM

Illegal Immigrants quite often are much more capable workers than the average lazy-ass-high-wage-expecting-fat-fuck-white-guy and they work for cheap! I don't think it would be a good idea to crack down on illegal immigration / illegal employment personally.

Ashes Emberblade · 03-25-2006, 07:35 PM

In order to enter the US legally to work you have to apply for a visa. These visas, however, are only available for professional jobs. That is, ones requiring at least a bachelor's degree. These visas require a large amount of paperwork, money, and effort.

They effectively shut out people with very little education who are, nonetheless, skilled at a trade. Tell me, exactly, why we should bar individuals who wish to come to our country to work honestly, simply because they don't have a bachelor's degree? How is it right for a country founded upon the hard work and dedication of immigrants to banish hard working and dedicated immigrants?

TheGoat · 03-25-2006, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashes Emberblade

They effectively shut out people with very little education who are, nonetheless, skilled at a trade. Tell me, exactly, why we should bar individuals who wish to come to our country to work honestly, simply because they don't have a bachelor's degree? How is it right for a country founded upon the hard work and dedication of immigrants to banish hard working and dedicated immigrants?

We don't bar individuals from entering who don't have a bachelor's degree. I know of more than a dozen people who were recently granted citizenship that count high school as their highest level of education. We do bar criminals. And the Hispanics that hop the border are criminals, plain and simple.

The laws are targeted at those who enter the country illegally. And don't pay taxes. And leech our social programs. And send most of the money they make back home.

If they want to enter legally, fine. That's what the process is there for.

I'm all for cheap strawberries and lettuce, but a line has to be drawn somewheres.

Kolle · 03-25-2006, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashes Emberblade

In order to enter the US legally to work you have to apply for a visa. These visas, however, are only available for professional jobs. That is, ones requiring at least a bachelor's degree. These visas require a large amount of paperwork, money, and effort.

They effectively shut out people with very little education who are, nonetheless, skilled at a trade. Tell me, exactly, why we should bar individuals who wish to come to our country to work honestly, simply because they don't have a bachelor's degree? How is it right for a country founded upon the hard work and dedication of immigrants to banish hard working and dedicated immigrants?

There's nothing honest about it. They are breaking the law. You can most certainly enter the country legally without having higher education. Also, I don't consider it honest to come here and ignore the country's native language and culture. Many different people have entered the US in the past 200 years, bringing their own culture to the mix...this is true but the key word is mix. The way things are in the southwest it's like a full blown conversion is in place to replace the US and add a few states to Mexico.

Bralkan · 03-26-2006, 04:02 AM

I haven’t read every post yet, but I will.

One: The current way to become "legal" is broken and needs to be fixed.
Two: Building a fence is expensive and wasteful. There are better ways to ensure people migrating into the country are legal.
Three: All most all world powers spoke/speak more than one language
Four: Past immigrants used to not "melt into the pot" - this was forced after WWI / WWII. Nebraska used to teach all subjects in English and German until WWI. Our country has a history of allowing immigrants to keep their culture in tact. Its just there are many many more Hispanics coming in then any other culture in the past (Except for blacks)

Listen guys - We are experiencing first generation Immigrants. First generation ALWAYS retain many many many aspects of the past culture. Shit, I bet you can still find Italian, Polish, etc families with a grandparent that only babbles in the motherland tongue. As the children of the first generation grow up here in our schools, they will be taught American culture. But what do you do about new ones? Well, work with the Mexican government to make their country less of a shit hole for starters and they will be less likely to leave.

Don't attack my post as some liberal bullshit. I want mostly what you guys want, I've just determined that the methods (just kick em out and build a fence! shoot em!) described will not work. All it will do is piss off mexico, short us of labor we need, and above all not fix the problem you set out to fix in the first place. Sometimes, to be a Realist you have to be giving. Not giving for alturism, but to achieve a situation that gives you the most power.

Just for fact: ~3% of our population is "illegal" (11.5 million).

Taehoon · 03-26-2006, 05:11 AM

I dislike the idea of a fence or a totally secure border. What if I want to get the fuck out of this crazy country?

As for illegal aliens, some things need to change and some new things need to be done.

People say that they freeload off our social programs. Maybe we should change how people get access to those programs. I just don't understand how it's possible that our government gives anything away to some guy that can't prove he's here legally. Does anyone have an answer to that? I mean fuck, if an illegal fucking guy can get free shit, I might as well sign up too.

As for something new that should be done, here's a grand idea that GW would fucking love. Make it mandatory that all immigrants must serve for 2 years in the military. Oh, and we speak English in the military. Another problem solved.

Bralkan · 03-26-2006, 05:45 AM

I find this really interesting:

Quote:

According to respondents, 69 percent of you believe immigrants hurt the U.S. economy and 26 percent believe immigrants help the economy. There are stark differences between respondents of different education levels. Respondents with less than a college education believe immigration hurts more than those who have a college degree.

http://www.pollingpoint.com/results_121405.html

Samus Aran · 03-26-2006, 06:31 AM

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