Drugs are bad?

[Hooby]

I made this thread because I wanted to know how people feel about drugs, nearly all of these questions cater to the anti / borderline drug folks; specifically #2 and #3. That being said, I will try to make the questions somewhat independent and unique of eachother.

1) Do you think drugs should be legal or illegal, and why?
2) For those of you who don't do any illegal substances, would you try them if they were legal?
3) If you knew and respected a person, unaware that they used drugs a fair amount, would learning that they consumed drugs change your opinion of them as a person?
4) What event/medium influenced your opinion on drug use the most? The law, media, friends/family etc...
5) Lastly, have you ever willfully tried any drugs? If so, which kinds and how often.

I am asking this because a lot of happening going on brought these questions up to me, I will answer in a seperate post to avoid confusion. Thanks to people who answer

[Hooby]

Originally Posted by Hooby

1) Do you think drugs should be legal or illegal, and why?

I think that nearly all drugs should be legal, as I am a person who tends to believe in complete freedom in a moral sense. That meaning, anything that is not directly impeding with another person's rights (Life, liberty, and property). The only drugs I see that are in violation of these boundaries are drugs that make a person lose touch with reality, while still maintaining their motor skills.
Honestly, despite my love to debate and habit of playing devil's advocate, I can not form a logical arguement that should ban the use of mind altering substances that is not formed on religion.
Also, as an interesting side note, I still think / hope for drugs to be legalized; despite the fact that means that drug selling will then be commercialized and thus I will lose the luxary of getting free hand outs from dealer friends... Or making a quick couple hundred bucks in a pinch.

2) For those of you who don't do any illegal substances, would you try them if they were legal?

Non-applicable.

4) What event/median influenced your opinion on drug use the most? The law, media, friends/family etc...

The thing that influenced me the most, at this point, is my own experiences. Although I was semi-opposed to them before I tried any, the more varieties I have had the more I realized that many drugs are actually extremely useful for learning about yourself and your surroundings. Still, I think that there are both useful and plain old guilty fun substances.

5) Lastly, have you ever willfully tried any drugs? If so, which kind and how often

Many, pretty often

[Neppy]

1) Do you think drugs should be legal or illegal, and why?

No, because they end up here anyways and making them illegal is just creating huge profit margins etc. if people want to ruin their lives, lose their job etc by tripping on drugs im all for it, more air for me. Also scientific researchers cant get any acess to a lot of the most interesting chemicals because they are schedule 1 drugs, and I think anything that impedes science sucks.

2) For those of you who don't do any illegal substances, would you try them if they were legal?

no

3) If you knew and respected a person, unaware that they used drugs a fair amount, would learning that they consumed drugs change your opinion of them as a person?

Negatively I guess. To be honest I have no idea why but I would definitely be influenced negatively. Gut reaction or something.

4) What event/medium influenced your opinion on drug use the most? The law, media, friends/family etc...

Probably the media I guess. I think that the more you know about drugs (chemically, etc.) the less likely you are to use them. Knowing "hey that will make you trip out" is one thing, knowing "hey that stuff will make you trip out by starving your brain cells of neurochemicals" is another.

5) Lastly, have you ever willfully tried any drugs? If so, which kinds and how often.

no

[Kolle]

Originally Posted by Hooby

I made this thread because I wanted to know how people feel about drugs, nearly all of these questions cater to the anti / borderline drug folks; specifically #2 and #3. That being said, I will try to make the questions somewhat independent and unique of eachother.

1) Do you think drugs should be legal or illegal, and why?
2) For those of you who don't do any illegal substances, would you try them if they were legal?
3) If you knew and respected a person, unaware that they used drugs a fair amount, would learning that they consumed drugs change your opinion of them as a person?
4) What event/medium influenced your opinion on drug use the most? The law, media, friends/family etc...
5) Lastly, have you ever willfully tried any drugs? If so, which kinds and how often.

I am asking this because a lot of happening going on brought these questions up to me, I will answer in a seperate post to avoid confusion. Thanks to people who answer

1. Drugs should be legal

There are many reasons why drugs should be legal:

A: Certain drugs weren't made illegal until roughly 100 years ago. The reasons why they were made illegal were racist. This was primarily to screw over the asian immigrants with opium, the hispanic immigrants with cocaine, and the black population with pot.

B: As stated, all of these drugs were legal over 100 years ago. You could easily buy any drug you wanted in the cities and elsewhere. Even though these drugs were available, cheap, and legal there wasn't a situation of everyone turning into a junkie. Drug use wasn't rampant. Most people either didn't use them at all or used them casually, thus having little impact on their normally productive lives. The world existed long before the USA and long before those laws were made. The planet didn't implode on itself and have all of humanity doomed when drugs were legal.

C: Drug laws create violent crime. Since drugs are illegal there is great risk in transporting and selling them. This means they are priced higher than they would be otherwise. Drugs can be an extremely expensive habit. Average people who get hooked on drugs cannot support their habit on the pay of normal jobs. These people turn to crime in order to afford their addiction. This includes robberies, murders, etc... Prior to these drugs being made illegal there wasn't a large amount of crime for the above reason. People could easily afford their drug habits working normal jobs. For the most part people kept things under control without resorting to violence.

D: Drug laws create rich, powerful drug lords. Think about prohibition. What happened when the government banned alcohol? Gangsters and other groups filled the gap, creating a black market for booze. They got filthy rich and a lot of violent crime was committed in the middle of it all. It threatened to tear the country apart. It's worse with illegal drugs. The illegal drug trade makes over 1 Trillion dollars each year. We have extremely wealthy drug lords with their own personal armies. These thugs rule over their area with a frightening power. They have more wealth than 99.9% of Americans will ever see. Their business is founded on blood. It also creates similar people locally. They exist because the laws outlawing drugs creates them. Just like with prohibition, if you remove the laws then you essentially remove the violent drug lords. They would be replaced by corporations, just like we currently have Coors, Bud, etc...

E: Drug laws creates crime via gangs. Because of the drug laws, local gangs fight to control turf. This leads to gun fights among other things. A lot of people in poor, destitute areas get caught up in this. Innocent people are shot and clueless children are recruited into the gangs because no one was there to teach them otherwise. A long list of crime streams from this source on the local level.

F: The 'War on Drugs' is a waste of resources. Governments have pored billions of dollars into this bottomless pit. Countless people have been killed trying to enforce these laws and many criminals have been killed trying to protect their goods. There's been a lot of bloodshed. What do they have to show for it? Not a damn thing. Drugs find their way into the country without fail and you can buy just about anything you could want at almost any location. The man hours and money would be better spent improving our country instead of fighting something that isn't beatable.



2. I don't do drugs and no, I wouldn't do them if they were legal.

I don't do illegal drugs for the same reason I don't smoke. I don't do them for the same reason I don't smash my balls with a hammer. I understand that it would not help my life and that it would cause a negative impact on myself and those around me. You don't prevent people from doing drugs by making them illegal, you prevent drug use by educating people about the dangers associated with drugs. As I said earlier, you can buy any drug you want anyways. Them being illegal has nothing to do with it.

The idea that millions upon millions of normal people would rush out and become junkies if drug laws were erased is completely ludicrous. I would remind anyone saying that of the fact that over 100 years ago these laws didn't exist and people who abused drugs at dangerous levels were a very small percent of the population.



3. Yes.

I would trust a person less if I found out they were doing hardcore drugs. I also dislike people more if I find out they smoke tobacco. I also dislike people who drink too much. The list goes on and on about why I wouldn't like a person, much as it would for anyone else.



4. Family.

Quite a number of my family members used drugs. It completely ruined their lives. Drugs being illegal didn't prevent those things from happening. It did, however, teach me first hand that doing a lot of drugs was a good way to fuck your life up. I don't do drugs because I've seen excellent reasons not to, not because they are against the law.



5. No.






*As a side note, Tobacco and Alcohol kills over 400,000 Americans each year, yet they remain legal. Pot kills virtually no one. Other illegal drugs kill a very tiny fraction of that number, even though they are easily obtained. This is how you know the 'War on Drugs' has nothing to do with the governments (or anyone in power) concern over your personal health and well being.

[Hooby]

Originally Posted by Neppy

if people want to ruin their lives, lose their job etc by tripping on drugs im all for it, more air for me.

Unfortunately, the only way my life will be ruined is if the law is involved, although I do understand how you could get that perspective... a large majority of drug users are completely irresponsible with them. It is very easy to just stop caring about the outside world when you can feel good without having to actually accomplish or work towards anything, although personally I am taking: chemistry, psychology, physics, and sociology. Hoping to become either a therapist, neuropsychologist, or pharmaceutical engineer (though I admittedly still have a long way to go, I am fairly sure I can do it without fucking up ).

Originally Posted by Neppy

Also scientific researchers cant get any acess to a lot of the most interesting chemicals because they are schedule 1 drugs, and I think anything that impedes science sucks.

That does irk me too, although more so for ruining legit medical purposes. IE: mdma is an amazingly useful drug for helping people with post traumatic stress etc, as it allows a person to look at their problems from an outside and generally unfiltered perspective.

Originally Posted by Neppy

I think that the more you know about drugs (chemically, etc.) the less likely you are to use them. Knowing "hey that will make you trip out" is one thing, knowing "hey that stuff will make you trip out by starving your brain cells of neurochemicals" is another.

Actually, I spend a large amount of time researching different drugs, researching the consequences makes some drugs look much more appealing, and others not so much so *cough* meth / pcp *cough*.

If you are the type of person who is able to read long articles to gain insight on different perspectives, I suggest/request that you read this. Always curious to see what people think (Shulgin is a great man). That man has at the very least tripped on many types of drugs Thousands of times, yet he is still full of insight and a shit load of book smarts... thus a good example

PS: Though I have had many great times involving drugs, I am proud to say that; personally, all of my best memories / accomplishments have been while sober. The reason one might not expect that is probably because sober stories, while meaningful to me, just aren't as entertaining as crazy drug adventures to an audience

EDIT: Cigarettes are gross (I love telling hs smoking kids that, it usually confuses the hell out of them that someone like me would avoid cigarettes). Good post kolle, your answer to #4 is most respectable. Also thanks for touching on a lot of legalization issues I kinda just skipped over to save space :P

[Cathan]

Originally Posted by Hooby

I made this thread because I wanted to know how people feel about drugs, nearly all of these questions cater to the anti / borderline drug folks; specifically #2 and #3. That being said, I will try to make the questions somewhat independent and unique of eachother.

1) Do you think drugs should be legal or illegal, and why?
I used to be all for legalizing drugs until I heard about the situation over in Denmark... Drugs are legal there and drug abuse is phenomenal. Kolle said 100 years ago drugs weren't illegal and drugs weren't abused as bad. 100 yeras ago they didn't have crack. Drugs may not have been so potent and I HIGHLY doubt they were so intentionally addictive as some are now. I think pot should be legal and sold at a store like ABC controlled by the government. Legalizing all drugs would just lead to rampant drug abuse just like Denmark has though...

2) For those of you who don't do any illegal substances, would you try them if they were legal?
I've had 6 kidney stones and a ruptured disk in my back. Occasionally, and I mean very rarely, instead of having to spend the extra money to go to the dr to get a subscription for some pain killers it "might" be nice to just go buy them myself. The flip side of others not as responsible as they should be getting them easier just isn't worth it though. I'll keep going to the dr to get scrips every other year or 3 when I have a stone...

3) If you knew and respected a person, unaware that they used drugs a fair amount, would learning that they consumed drugs change your opinion of them as a person?
Yes it does for me. Throw out all the moral bullshit about drug use and you're still left with people using substances that harm them. I look at Tobacco and Alcohol in the same way also. I have no double standard on drug use. If it's bad and you're hurting yourself then I'm sorry but it lowers my opinion of you.

4) What event/medium influenced your opinion on drug use the most? The law, media, friends/family etc...
I served 4 years in the Marine Corps and I just got used to the idea of drugs being stupid. I grew up in the south but hearing about the crack epidemic helped steer me clear of drugs. In the end it just became a personal choice that my brain cells don't reproduce. Everytime you indulge in drugs you're chopping away at your potential, how much depends on what you do..


5) Lastly, have you ever willfully tried any drugs? If so, which kinds and how often.
I smoked some pot right out of highschool. It never did shit for me so when I joined the Marine Corps it wasn't hard to never do it again. It wasn't oregano either hehe. I've taken hydrocodone, oxycodone, loritabs, meprozine, oxycontin, flexiril and some other weak opiate pill I can't remember the name of.
I can't lie and say I don't like how I feel sometimes when I take the pills. I used to tell my gf I loved her like every 30 seconds after I had a minor surgery. Over the last 10 years I've taken pills maybe 2 or 3 times a year if you averaged it all out. Almost all of it was prescription. When I blew the disc in my back I couldn't afford to go to the dr. A friend's brother died and had some oxycontin left over so I took a few of those 1 weekend. I'll never take those again if I can help it though. They are way too strong and I really felt depressed when I came down off them, for like a week. I realized my mood had changed about 3 days after I took them and figured out it was the pills since I didn't normally feel down like that. I don't suffer from depression. Meprozine are just anti-inflammatories but I don't like them either because I get some weird adrenaline effects. Someone would walk up behind me and lightly touch my shoulder. I would get these waves of adrenaline rushing through me like my life was on the line. 3 days later I would just barely be straying toward the side of the road (not because I was all drugged out and incapable of driving, I generally felt fine at that point). When I'd see my car would run off the road in 5 to 10 seconds I would just steer straight and those same waves of adrenaline would rush through me and freak me out. I wrecked my car 12 hours after taking flexiril (muscle relaxers). I was on the highway speeding in cali with 6 lanes on my side headed to the beach. I always knew exactly where cars were around me so I could zip through traffic. I misjudged where an old mustang was so I had to slam on the breaks and I still hit the car in front of me. I knew then I was off because I didn't realize the car was beside me when I meant to merge.

I am asking this because a lot of happening going on brought these questions up to me, I will answer in a seperate post to avoid confusion. Thanks to people who answer

Drugs are bad mmkay?

[Kilivek]

[quote=Hooby]
1) Do you think drugs should be legal or illegal, and why?
2) For those of you who don't do any illegal substances, would you try them if they were legal?
3) If you knew and respected a person, unaware that they used drugs a fair amount, would learning that they consumed drugs change your opinion of them as a person?
4) What event/medium influenced your opinion on drug use the most? The law, media, friends/family etc...
5) Lastly, have you ever willfully tried any drugs? If so, which kinds and how often.
QUOTE]

1Illegal, to prevent as many people from wasting their lives as possible.
2No
3Yes, I had been friends with this girl i thought very hot in high school, i found out she used cocaine. Most unattractive thing ever, but i dated her to make her stop.
4Watching people from gradeschool to middle school turn from A students into worthless dropout whores with no intentions in life but to pleasure themselves.
5Marijuana--1 time, overrated.

[Bralkan]

The problem with number 1 kilivek, is making them illegal doesn't accomplish that.

Education is really your best prevenative measure.

[Samus Aran]

I'm torn on the subject of legality. Some drugs (heroin, meth, coke) seem too taboo and dangerous--I'm not going to ever try them and I'm not sure if those should be legalized. But an interesting point is that there is a group of doctors (in MD iirc) that are experimenting with letting people goto their clinic and shoot up heroin whenever they want since they believe that using it in a clean, safe environment won't be detrimental to their health/life.

[PannorramiX]

http://imdb.com/title/tt0214730/

If you're interrested in the drug history of the US over the past 100 years watch this. I found it pretty entertaining and interresting.

On an other note, i live in the Netherlands and here "softdrugs" (hash, weed, shrooms etc.) are "legal" and i must say thats pretty cool. It's not like everyone will turn into a useless junkie when you legalize it.

[Kan]

Originally Posted by Hooby

1) Do you think drugs should be legal or illegal, and why?

I don't think legalizing drugs is a smart choice. Pot is a little different there in the sense there are less things to say negative about it then other things, there are many well done arguements for both sides. When I was younger I was for the legalization of pot but now that i'm older I don't think it is a good idea. Legalization of every other drug is a definite no and always has been. My reasons for saying no to pot now aren't as detailed and bold as most you will see it is more so based off my own personal experiences which led to a dark road for myself and many of my friends (granted it also including all other drugs as well but started with weed.) I do believe that some people can just smoke up and be content but I also believe that a good amount of people can't just do that. I have friends who do just that but I have alot more friends who don't or used to do everything as well. So its not a concrete reason its just a personal opinion.


3) If you knew and respected a person, unaware that they used drugs a fair amount, would learning that they consumed drugs change your opinion of them as a person?

No. Their actions would, not what they did in their spare time. If they were using and they had kids (and it went beyond smoking weed on occasion) I would confront them and try to talk sense into them and if they still refused to see how they are going to fuck up their kids and their life then my opinion would change about them. But if it was just a respected person I had no ties to then I wouldn't care.


4) What event/medium influenced your opinion on drug use the most? The law, media, friends/family etc...

Personal experience, during my high school days I was a pretty heavy user of most everything. I almost died a couple times from the things I was doing (spent a couple times in the ER ODing) and had a few friends who did (one was just 2 months ago as well) as well as alot of friends go to jail. I had to stop doing everything because my body was starting to shutdown and if I didn't I was going to die from organ failure. I went through the whole withdrawal and everything and it took me a long time to get my life back in order. I'm not proud about the things I did but they helped me become who I am today which I believe is a much better person then I was then.


5) Lastly, have you ever willfully tried any drugs? If so, which kinds and how often.

Quite often and most everything. The one I regret the most is Acid because of the damaged it did to me and the lasting effects that have not yet gone away completely, I still will see Kaleidascopes in the sky (haven't touched acid in over 7 years) the effects do fade over time but I fully regret doing it as much as I did. I never shot up though that is one thing I am proud to say.

[Furism]

1) I don't know if all the drugs should be legal, but pot definitively should. It makes no sense whatsoever that alcohol is legal and pot is not. This is just a cultural thing.

3) Probably, but not necessarily in a bad way. I'm sure that if my boss knew I smoke MJ he would be surprised, but I'd have to tell him because he could never guess.

4) I never touched anything else that MJ. I've been offered to use shroom, acid, coke, heroin, pretty much everything, and I never accepted. Because I know that MJ is fairly harmless, but the other, harder drugs can potentially hurt me a lot in a very short timeframe.

5) When I have MJ, I smoke two J on a weekday, up to 5 on week end. I have a very sucessful life, a good job, and people can't tell that I'm a "drug user".

[Ashes Emberblade]

Making drugs illegal, and the resulting war on drugs, has led to a continuous decay of property rights in the US. On an anonymous tip, one's home, car, and/or person can be searched and seized in the name of our holy crusade against narcotics.

Laws and government exist, supposedly, to protect the individual from the aggression of other individuals, and to insure the rights of the individual. Drug laws do not do so. They do not protect the individual from violence. They do not protect the individual's property.

[Kolle]

It seems like those supporting the laws against drugs keep forgetting that a legal drug, Tobacco, is far more deadly. Pot kills almost no one while Tobacco kills hundreds of thousands of americans every year.

Even when these laws didn't exist a small percent of the population went overboard with things like cocaine and opium. A ton of people smoked Tobacco even then.

Since things like cocaine are a little more extreme in how it treats your body, people understand that doing it is a bad choice. Since Tobacco takes awhile to kill you, too many people get trapped in it and die earlier than they should have. Wouldn't you agree that Tobacco is the more dangerous drug that should be illegal? That is, if you think it's right that these other drugs are illegal.

American deaths each year:

* Tobacco kills about 400,000
* Alcohol kills about 80,000
* Workplace accidents kill 60,000
* Automobiles kill 40,000
* Cocaine kills about 2,500
* Heroin kills about 2,000
* Aspirin kills about 2,000
* Marijuana kills 0



Now, please explain to me why pot is worse than tobacco.



Oh, just for the fun of it here are other ways you can die that are more frequent than illegal drugs:


Firearms - 28,663

Alzheimers - 49,558

Drowning - 3,842

Complications of Med/Surg Care - 3,059

Falls - 13,322

Poisoning and Noxious Subst's - 12,757

[Samus Aran]

Originally Posted by Kolle

It seems like those supporting the laws against drugs keep forgetting that a legal drug, Tobacco, is far more deadly. Pot kills almost no one while Tobacco kills hundreds of thousands of americans every year.

Even when these laws didn't exist a small percent of the population went overboard with things like cocaine and opium. A ton of people smoked Tobacco even then.

Since things like cocaine are a little more extreme in how it treats your body, people understand that doing it is a bad choice. Since Tobacco takes awhile to kill you, too many people get trapped in it and die earlier than they should have. Wouldn't you agree that Tobacco is the more dangerous drug that should be illegal? That is, if you think it's right that these other drugs are illegal.

The real Question is, how in the hell is it good for you?

Also, studies are finding more and more problems caused by long term use of marijuana.

I am also completely against drug use, but I think some should be legal. Especially the one's that are likely kill people. Let's get rid of the fuckers as soon as possible.