Question about hardware

[Dis]

Building the following PC off of these specs:

SUPER LANBOY Antec Case
NEC DVD-Burner
Seagate Barracuda 7200rpm 250GB HD
XMS Corsair 1GB (2X512MB)
Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe ATX AMD
AMD Athlon 64 4000+
XFX GeForce 7800GT PCI-Xpress
Antec SmartPower 2.0 500w
w/ MS Media Center 05 OS


Questions:

Been away from the gaming rig game for awhile hardware wise:

1.) Would it be better to buy 2GB of generic Kingston RAM vs. 1GB of OCed XMS Corsair RAM?

2.) Intel vs AMD, same price I can buy a 3.6mHzw/ 2MB of cache? Which is better?

3.) XFX for video card, never heard of them, but they have generally positive reader reviews and are lower priced than the ASUS equivalent by about 50 bucks. Should I stay with XFX or make the switch to ASUS?

4.) I am assuming this is a yes but is 500w enough to power this rig if I decide to eventually get a matching vid card (SLI enabled)?


BTW total cost of this rig with OS is about 1500.00 all parts from newegg.

[Eomer]

1) Depends on what you plan on doing with your system. If you're just going to run the memory bus at 200mhz, then there isn't a huge difference between generic ram and fancier stuff. Latency settings can have a pretty significant effect on synthetic benchmarks, but in-game performance differences should be pretty minor with different latency settings. I'd say that 2gb might be a better bet, so long as that's not hamstringing you from overclocking or something like that (personally I love my OCZ PC-3200 VX, as it runs at pretty much any settings I want it to).

2) For gaming purposes, AMD hammers Intel across the board. Anyone who tells you different is wrong. However for desktop/work uses, Intel systems can offer a better performance level with their hyperthreading. I've not had an Intel system in years and I can't comment personally, but Kyle at HardOCP has stood by that kind of opinion for years. But if you get a dual core Athlon, that advantage goes away. I'd say AMD is a much better platform at this point.

3) No idea, just make sure you do lots of research. I tend to find that with everything, not just computer parts, it's often worth the extra bit of cash to stick with a well-known company.

4) 520W would be sufficient, so long as it's a halfway decent PSU. Wattage isn't the end all, be all unfortunately. Again, in this regard it's a good idea to stick with known brands like Antec, OCZ, and half a dozen others I've forgotten the names of. If you get a generic 600W powersupply for half the price of a 520W OCZ powersupply, there's a good reason why it's so much cheaper.

[Phoenix]

I would go with eVGA/BFG for the video card, as they have lifetime warranties(eVGA even if you overclock your video card!).

As for memory, unless you plan to overclock, generic PC3200 will do. If youre going to play BF2 I highly suggest going with 2gigs.

You got a name brand PSU there so you shouldnt have to worry about it.

Your current setup is just fine, the above are just my suggestions.

[bcware]

Since some games on the market today REQUIRE 1 gig of ram for full game functionality, i'm going to have to further support having 2 gigs of generic brand; the extra padding will go a long way.

[Vorph]

I'd second the recommendation of OCZ ram, and eVGA/BFG video cards. Asus wouldn't be very high up on my list; being a great mobo company doesn't automatically mean they're great at video cards too.

Definitely get a 2x1GB ram kit now--as mentioned, BF2 already just about requires it, and even if you don't play that game, you will regret it within 6 months because of some other new game you do like. Maybe I'm just paranoid from bad experiences in the past, but I never trust the stability of a motherboard will all of its dimm slots filled. I'd much rather have 2x1GB than 4x512MB.

About the HD too... you really should get one of the new 16MB cache SATA drives. They're significantly faster than the older 8MB cache ones. I like the Maxtor MaxLine III series best because of its 5 year warranty.

[soulfly24]

just gonna agree with a couple of the posts already

1) I'm not a fan of generic ram. Some boards won't function properly with "value" ram, and along the same lines, those are usually crap chips. I definately recommend 2Gb just to help future proof your system for the upcoming games. Go with a reputable company (Corsair, OCZ) and enjoy some quality ram. RAM makes an huge impact on performance, so you don't wanna skimp on it and you don't want cheap stuff giving you trouble. It's worth the extra price to buy some quality RAM

2) depending on what you wanna do, AMD for gaming or Intel for applications, but like was said before, the AMD dual core cpu's perform just as well as the intel cpu's. The cache difference won't matter too much, plus amd's seem to be a bit cheaper. I used an Intel for quite a while and wasn't too pleased with the gaming performance in the benchmarks I did and general play. my new 3700 is smokin and i'm glad i did the upgrade. However, my intel did well in other applications

3) I just purchased an eVGA 7800 GTX and it has a lifetime warranty as mentioned. It was pretty cheap from newegg ($465) compared to the overpriced ASUS cards and i could overclock mine to the same speeds as the 600 dollar ASUS card. BFG is another decent company as well with warranties. I'd go with either of those for a nice mid-range price.

4) 520w is plenty, but, again, don't skimp on the brand. some PSU's claim such and such wattage, but it's the voltage rails you want stable. You don't want a struggling PSU. Make sure the PSU is SLI ready, and go with a reputable company. I got an OCZ Modstream 520w and it's great.

One other thing, I'd go with a SATA drive. I just recently went with 2 seagate 120Gb and put them in a RAID 0, a bit overkill, but it's fast! The western digital raptors are smokin drives but are expensive. i'm not a fan of thier PATA drives. Recently had one crash on me and give me problems before that. Seagate and Hitatchi both have solid drives and i'd recommend those. As Vorph said, the 16mb cache drive are nice, but i'm not sold on thier performance just yet. I would suggest the 8mb cache drives to save some dough. the extra cache won't make a huge impact on most things.

[Vorph]

Storage review showed a pretty decent speed increase across the board in the MaxLine III drives.

Edit: correction, the MaxLine III is actually cheaper than any of the 8MB cache SATA150 drives currently at newegg. Doesn't make sense to me, but it's true for at least 250GB and 300GB models. Maybe they're phasing out the 8MB ones or something.

[Kiely]

Just an idea, someone could clarify if its possible please:
Instead of 4000 64 AMD, get a 3800 amd X2 (dual core - if your mobo doesn't accept straight away a bios flash should allow it on the 939 socket)
Now I think to remember that the 3800/4400/4800's have the same core line and are just all clocked in stages for the consumer- perhaps with a upgrade in cooling you could push the cpu to a muchhhhhh higher hz then the 4000+ single core?
They are priced the same, those 2 cpu's. Just wondering how the bang for buck goes these day's, haven't read any forum or reviews lately..

[Eomer]

The dual core CPU's generally run somewhat slower, in terms of clockspeed, than the single cores. If you're only gaming, then you're better off with a faster single core really, since that second core will just sit idle the vast majority of the time. Maybe that'll start changing in the next year or two, but by then you'll be upgrading again. Dual core is tempting, but if you're on a budget I'd say that a single core A64 is a better value.

Definitely get a 2x1GB ram kit now--as mentioned, BF2 already just about requires it, and even if you don't play that game, you will regret it within 6 months because of some other new game you do like. Maybe I'm just paranoid from bad experiences in the past, but I never trust the stability of a motherboard will all of its dimm slots filled. I'd much rather have 2x1GB than 4x512MB.

Pretty sure that the memory controllers on AMD cpus actually have a hard time with having all 4 slots populated, and I believe they run the memory at a 2T command rate instead of 1T when all 4 are populated. Now, I don't know what the fuck command rate does, other than slow the system down a bit. So it's for sure better to get two sticks of 1gb each.

[Vorph]

The X2 3800+ is a 2.0GHz cpu with 2x512KB L2 cache. Going up to 4200/4600 adds 200MHz per step, and going to the 4400/4800 keeps the same frequency while increasing L2 cache to 2x1MB.

The A64 4000+ is a 2.4GHz cpu with 1MB L2 cache, making it on par with the X2 4800+, only with just a single core obviously. The 4000+ is basically the same exact cpu as an FX53, the only difference being that the FX53 is multiplier unlocked (that's why you pay so much for the FX series, if you're curious).

OC'ing a X2 3800+ is pretty easy, but since the cpu is multiplier locked (10x) and the normal oc is to about 2.4-2.6GHz you'll need extremely good ram, PC4000 at bare minimum, and a really good heatsink/fan.

It's easier to oc a 4000+ to higher speed, simply because it ships with a 12x multiplier. Instead of needing to hit 240-260MHz on the bus, you can do a 2.7GHz oc with only 225MHz bus. In other words, the cpu will be your only limiting factor and you can save some money on the ram (or at least the pain in the ass of trying to find really fast 1GB DIMMs--they don't exist beyond PC4000 yet).


In the end, though, if I was going to pay $370 for a cpu I'd buy the X2. Games and video drivers will be taking advantage of it soon enough to make it worth buying now. If you do any sort of video encoding, Photoshop work, etc. you can already see a huge benefit.

However, if you just don't care about the dual core, then buy a 3700+. It still has the 1MB L2 cache, and the only difference between it and the 4000+ is an 11x multiplier lock instead of 12x and $100 less out of your pocket.

And whatever you buy, make sure it's a 90nm process chip (San Diego for 1MB L2/Venice for 512KB L2) and not the older 130nm ones (ClawHammer).

Originally Posted by Eomer

Pretty sure that the memory controllers on AMD cpus actually have a hard time with having all 4 slots populated, and I believe they run the memory at a 2T command rate instead of 1T when all 4 are populated. Now, I don't know what the fuck command rate does, other than slow the system down a bit. So it's for sure better to get two sticks of 1gb each.

Ah, that's not so bad really. It used to be that AMD boards would drop down to DDR333 instead of DDR400 if you populated all 4 slots. Seems they got rid of that limitation with the E revision cores.

2T vs. 1T command rate is only 1-3% or so performance hit, assuming you're talking about a game running at a high enough resolution to be video- rather than cpu-limited. So technically you could beat 2x1GB with 4x512MB by spending a small fortune on PC4800 or whatever insanely high specs are available now, and simply clock the ram beyond what any 1GB DIMM can handle.

I'm still paranoid (and cheap!) though, and would stick with 2 DIMMs max. ^^

[Eomer]

You might be right on the DDR333, I think that was one of the bugs they fixed in the newer Venice/San Diego cores. My DFI Lanparty board game with a insert that had a chart laying out what command rate and frequency you'd get with different ram slots populated, and if memory serves to run dual channel in all 4 slots, they recommended DDR333.

[EnigmaticParadigm]

Since I know nothing of hardware, how much would his rig cost him? I'm going to be in the market soon myself.

[Vorph]

Originally Posted by EnigmaticParadigm

Since I know nothing of hardware, how much would his rig cost him? I'm going to be in the market soon myself.

$1500.00 is what he said at the top, and that sounds about right, give or take a bit depending on how much and what kind of ram you buy, and whether you go with an X2 3800+ or an A64 3700+. He also included the cost of the OS in there too, which a lot of people don't do.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Eomer

You might be right on the DDR333, I think that was one of the bugs they fixed in the newer Venice/San Diego cores. My DFI Lanparty board game with a insert that had a chart laying out what command rate and frequency you'd get with different ram slots populated, and if memory serves to run dual channel in all 4 slots, they recommended DDR333.

Yeah, My friend has been getting. Sucks he spent $400 on high quality memory only to have to underclock it and lose performance.

[Darkwave]

Alot of good suggestions here. Definately go with the twin sticks of 1GB RAM. If you are intending to set up for SLI I'd look for something in the 600w range for powersupply, but thats just my opinion. Also, reguarding processor, there is a new PhysX processor coming out that you might be interested in, save money on the dual core. http://www.ageia.com/technology.html Use SCSI or SATA for a HDD, 10k or 15k with the 16MB cache. Oh, and if you get the original HDD make sure you partition that beast!