The Terrorism Thread

[Mkopec1]

Originally Posted by Furism

Oh yes. One or two people did. But it wasn't a directive from the government. Several individuals with good connections did.

Sure..../wink /wink yeah thats the ticket. And who is the one saying not to tust Us gov? Maybe you should look inwards.

Originally Posted by Furism

I don't think so. I think it's because we knew that a call to arms isn't the solution to everything, because long before the US we were a colonial force and we lost a lot because of that. We learnt that violence, military isn't has effective as diplomacy, embargo or what you will. It's not being a pussy, it's learning from your mistakes.

Ahh so ebargos, sanctions and UN treaties are the way to go, right?

WTF is it all worth if the country in question is not held accountable? How many fucking treaties and embargos are you gonna sign? How many times is the wrist of the Dictator going to get slapped before we do something harsh?

THe oil for food was set in place to feed people in Iraq, well we all now how that worked. We also know how those sanctions worked too, when the frenchies which signed the god damn thing were over there whealing and dealing. Selling weapons to the fucker.

Originally Posted by Furism

Will somebody please tell me why the US invaded Iraq if it wasn't for WMDs, terrorist groups or oil ?

In any case, and no I don't have the link here because I'm lazy, the oil is being sold but the money directly comes to US companies rebuilding the country. Iraq doesn't get much money from their oil. See, oil itself isn't much of a big deal by itself, it's the money it's worth people want (and don't get me wrong, France would want a share of it too).

Like Kildace I'm not saying France is a better country than the US. We too fucked a lot of countries over, and still do.

I dont believe in conspiracy theorys. If you think that we are only there to have Halliburton profit from the war, your a fucking nut case.

You can go back to the Clinton days and see reports of Saddam building WMD's and funding his arsenal through the oil for food program. Tons of sattelite pictures of mobile labs, bunkers of WMD's and yes I still believe they are there somwhere, maybe he moved the fuckers to Syria. We even had first hand reports from defectors about Saddams WMD's. either all the above is true, or our intelligence community fucking sucks and all the above data is fucking worthless. /shrug

[AngryGerbil]

Originally Posted by Furism

Well maybe I was a little off topic. I guess what scares me is that you know you were lied to, and you don't even seem to care.

Plenty of us care very much. I despise George Bush and his administration and happliy await the day he is out of office. But you can't forget, he is our president. I don't like what he did, but he did it and I'm begining to think the best course of action at this point is to just go with it, keep the ball rolling so to speak. I do NOT think doing like Spain and just up and leaving will do any good for anyone.

Originally Posted by Furism

A lot of people died, and yet some people in this very thread keep saying "I don't know if it was a mistake". When people don't learn from history, it repeats itself.

I think what you're seeing is a convergence of both sides of the original Iraq debate comming together (slowly but surely) to try to just put it behind us and ask "Ok, what now?" People like Mkopec are saying stuff like "I don't know if it was a mistake" while people like me are saying "I didn't agree with it when it happened, but it happened." The point is, we really do need to get over it now and move forward. Also, I'm not sure what repeating history you are referring to, please explain.

Originally Posted by Furism

How you stop terrorism? You first try and stop being hated. That means to let countries keep the product of their land (yes, oil, among other things), so they don't feel you came just to rob them.

Rob? American and western corporations found the oil in the middle east. We drilled the oil, we built the sites. We paid those governments to do this and then paid them for the oil. If the people of the middle east feel robbed, it should be by their own leaders not by us. I highly doubt the Saudi Royals feel "robbed" while they drive around in their Audi's and H2's. If the middle eastern world hates America because of their state of poverty, then their hatred is misguided. Billions of dollars flow into that region every year, if the citizens over there are content to let the leaders keep it all, that's not something I can help. But that's not the reason they hate us.

The truth is, we cannot stop "being hated". Like I said earlier, it is a cultural war. The things that I stand for as an individual and as an American are an affront to the things they stand for. They use a religious scripture to facilitate the writing and execution of their laws... I will NEVER stand for a system like that and will always fight against it, I can only assume they feel the opposite about me. My culture and their culture cannot co-exist. I cannot stop "being hated" any more than I can stop being a freedom loving, freethinking defender of personal liberty and a member of modern civilization. Nor would I want to stop.

Originally Posted by Furism

And not only the people of these countries, but you also need to make sure people of the other countries know that you are want to help. You don't need to send soldiers in to do that.

Define "help". I have no desire to "help" the shit heads who advocate legally sanctioned gang rape as punishment to a woman whose brother insulted someone. In fact, I'd like to personally shoot those cocksuckers square in the face. That, in my opinion, would "help" everyone on earth.

Other than that, how would you propose we "help"? Oil for Food? Yeah, smashing success there so far...

[Onte]

Originally Posted by Furism

I don't think so. I think it's because we knew that a call to arms isn't the solution to everything, because long before the US we were a colonial force and we lost a lot because of that. We learnt that violence, military isn't has effective as diplomacy, embargo or what you will. It's not being a pussy, it's learning from your mistakes.

No, you are big fat dripping pussies. I don't speak and express myself nearly as eloquently as some of these guys you're currently arguing with, but yes, you're big fat dripping pussies and there's not a whole lot your entire country and government can do to change *my* mind (or drive me to buy your products again).

We saved your asses twice in the last century and you have the audacity to turn your backs on us? And claim you're taking the higher ground when your officials have been accepting oil vouchers the entire time? Fuck off, I hope an earthquake hits you, oui oui.

I apologize for not contributing true content, I wanted my chance to take a stab at the French. It's all this bottled-up anger, you see....

[AngryGerbil]

All this French-o-phobia is really disgusting and makes me sick. There is a difference with disagreeing with what the French are currently doing (or not doing as it were) and outright hatred towards them because Bill O'Riley told you to.

Furism, I disagree with you on the subject of Iraq and terrorism, but please do not equate me with the shitknocker who posted above me.

[Mist]

The analysis is looking like it was one man who planted all the devices in London. All were remote bombs, not suicide bombs.

Starting World War III over the actions of one man is a bit extreme, no?

[Mist]

Originally Posted by AngryGerbil

Rob? American and western corporations found the oil in the middle east. We drilled the oil, we built the sites. We paid those governments to do this and then paid them for the oil. If the people of the middle east feel robbed, it should be by their own leaders not by us. I highly doubt the Saudi Royals feel "robbed" while they drive around in their Audi's and H2's. If the middle eastern world hates America because of their state of poverty, then their hatred is misguided. Billions of dollars flow into that region every year, if the citizens over there are content to let the leaders keep it all, that's not something I can help. But that's not the reason they hate us.

The truth is, we cannot stop "being hated". Like I said earlier, it is a cultural war. The things that I stand for as an individual and as an American are an affront to the things they stand for. They use a religious scripture to facilitate the writing and execution of their laws... I will NEVER stand for a system like that and will always fight against it, I can only assume they feel the opposite about me. My culture and their culture cannot co-exist. I cannot stop "being hated" any more than I can stop being a freedom loving, freethinking defender of personal liberty and a member of modern civilization. Nor would I want to stop.

We're the ones that back the Saudi royal family. We protect them, with US soldiers. They keep all the money for themselves, and they let the people in their country rot. If it wasn't for the US, there would most likely be a revolution in Saudi Arabi. This is the most important issue to people like Osama Bin Laden. This is bigger than Israel even.

[Eomer]

Congratulations, you are an ignorant douchebag who has fallen for that wonderful thing called propaganda. I'm too lazy to repost the figures for US oil consumption, I'll just point out that A: they were already posted in this thread, and B: You are a fucking dumbass.

Whoa whoa whoa, I was the one who posted the pulled out of my ass stats (which are reasonably accurate). I was only correcting someone's error. Just because only 20-30% of the US's oil comes from OPEC countries (Iran, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, those lovely places), doesn't mean that the US wouldn't be eager as hell to secure Iraq and develop it's oil fields. A supply burp anywhere in the world causes oil prices globally to be affected. Take this hurricane Dennis shit as a good example. Oil's spiked about $61.50 in the past couple of days, despite the terrorism attacks in London which have the opposite effect, because of supply worries in the Gulf of Mexico. That's a new record high, by the way. At least, it is if you don'd adjust for inflation (in which case the price would have to top 80-90 to get to the prices they were in the late 70's).

So just because the US isn't getting a huge amount of oil from Iraq, or Iran, or wherever, doesn't mean it's not concerned with cranking as much oil out of Iraq as possible. Don't try to misconstrue what I said.

[Itzena]

Originally Posted by Mkopec1

I think harboring means that you as a country know that you have terrorist cells in your country conducting business and you look the other way, even in some cases funding their efforts.

Irish Republican Army.

[sarinrathe]

Originally Posted by Mkopec1
I think harboring means that you as a country know that you have terrorist cells in your country conducting business and you look the other way, even in some cases funding their efforts.

School of the Americas

[Dis]

Originally Posted by Eomer

Whoa whoa whoa, I was the one who posted the pulled out of my ass stats (which are reasonably accurate). I was only correcting someone's error. Just because only 20-30% of the US's oil comes from OPEC countries (Iran, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, those lovely places), doesn't mean that the US wouldn't be eager as hell to secure Iraq and develop it's oil fields. A supply burp anywhere in the world causes oil prices globally to be affected. Take this hurricane Dennis shit as a good example. Oil's spiked about $61.50 in the past couple of days, despite the terrorism attacks in London which have the opposite effect, because of supply worries in the Gulf of Mexico. That's a new record high, by the way. At least, it is if you don'd adjust for inflation (in which case the price would have to top 80-90 to get to the prices they were in the late 70's).

So just because the US isn't getting a huge amount of oil from Iraq, or Iran, or wherever, doesn't mean it's not concerned with cranking as much oil out of Iraq as possible. Don't try to misconstrue what I said.

Add to that list of US Corporate Oil companies (same goes for non-US companies, I want to be fair) that sell oil to other countries. Just because we do not consume it does not mean we are not profiting from consumption of another country.


Dis

[Furism]

Originally Posted by AngryGerbil

All this French-o-phobia is really disgusting and makes me sick. There is a difference with disagreeing with what the French are currently doing (or not doing as it were) and outright hatred towards them because Bill O'Riley told you to.

Furism, I disagree with you on the subject of Iraq and terrorism, but please do not equate me with the shitknocker who posted above me.

Don't worry mate, I know a lot of people in America are actually able to think and don't confuse everything And, althought some of the responses to my posts in this thread are valid, and worth responding, I won't because of the general hostility. I knew it would come to that when I posted, but I thought people around here were more mature.

That, or I'm just a pussy like all frenc... err, froggies. (pussies to such an extent that we went to Vietnam years before you, or we're a major UN protection force in Africa or Bosnia - but whatever, only Middle-East counts, right?)

[Kolle]

O'Reily lies quite a bit, so definately don't trust the shit you see on his show. Believe it or not, the French have been Incredibly helpful against terrorism and have helped the US quite a bit. They still are.

The blood-crazy, war-frenzied dumbasses who got pissed because the French didn't support Iraq love to bash them and distort the truth whenever possible.

[Mkopec1]

It doesnt change the fact that the common american is basically hated in france, have you been lately?

[Eomer]

It doesnt change the fact that the common american is basically hated in france, have you been lately?

Yeah, and that's different from the sentiment in the US towards the French how? Hypocracy is a wonderful thing.

Not to mention that the hostility people often feel in France has nothing to do with where they're from. The people of Paris are rude to everyone. My parents went there in the 70's and despite French being my dad's first language (but it's Quebequois French, *gasp*), they were treated like dirt most places they went in Paris. Same with my sister and her husband when they went to Paris for their honeymoon, and again my sister is very fluent in French (but the wrong French). Both of them had incidents where they started to speak in French and were told to stop and speak in English because it was "hurting their ears" or something to that effect.

But that's mostly just Paris. Both couples said that once you get outside of Paris, everyone's very friendly and welcoming. Would you judge the entirety of America based on people's behaviour in New York?

[Furism]

Like Eomer said.