God, nothingness, life, death... - Page 5

Eomer · 01-17-2005, 09:36 PM

I actually do kind of believe that a lot of paranormal stuff really does happen, despite myself being a more or less complete atheist. Maybe that's not the right term for myself, though. I more just believe that there's an explanation for everything, a logical one that you can follow from point A to point B.

At the same time, I think most "paranormal" crap you hear about are hoaxes, hallucinations, or just plain bullshit. But a lot of stuff really often is hard to explain with our current knowledge. But just reading about some of the very fancy dancy theoretical physics, like string and quantum theories, it certainly lends credence to a lot of paranormal shit having scientific explanations, even if we don't know what those are just yet. Maybe we never will. But with all the different dimensions and realities and universes that string theory predicts, it certainly doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility that once life or intelligence gets to a certain level or point, that it starts to trancend normal reality. Not sure if I can even begin to get my thoughts out properly on this. Perhaps people who are psychics (the very few who truly are) just have the ability to somehow tap into some unknown ability to truly see the future, or A future. Perhaps ghosts are just echo's of people who themselves were attuned to whatever it is I am talking about, and their consciousness is able to stick around simply by force of will.

I can't say that I've ever had dreams about being someone else in a past life, I rarely remember my dreams in all honesty. And when I do they rarely if ever make any sense. But I do often get incredibly strong sense of deja vu, and sometimes it can persist for 30 seconds or a minute. I had one recently on Christmas Day, actually. My immediate family came over for brunch (was my turn this year) that morning. I moved into my place last year, and this was the first time my family has been at my place as a group, so it's not like I was remembering something from the past. As I was standing in the kitchen making eggs and bacon, I suddenly got a really strong sense of deja vu, like what was going on had happened before, and I kind of felt distant from myself, like I was watching over my own shoulder. I can't remember the details now, but it lasted for a good 30 seconds. I was even remembering what was about to happen. I thought to myself that my sister was about to say something, and sure enough a few seconds later she said what I was expecting. Then all of the sudden it was gone and I was back to normal.

Stuff like that happens to me, well, I wouldn't say often. Maybe a couple times a year. But it happens often enough that I really would like to know just what the hell it is that causes it. Is it just my brain zoning out for a few seconds? Is there some physiological explanation? Or is there something more to it than that? I don't normally spend much time thinking about it, I am not really that into self-introspection or introspection about much of anything. But the last post got me thinking about it.

adalos · 01-17-2005, 10:33 PM

my proof of God is my relationship with him. when you personally feel the presence of God (or the flip side of things). you don't rely on blind faith any more. unfortuneately, there is no way to transfer this to another person to let them see it. i have never visually seen God nor talked to him like i would talk to a person. however, i know he is there. and on numerous occassions, that presence that is usually just a faint feeling is transformed into something undeniable. things such as slaying of the spirit, deep focused prayer, taking part in an intense prayer group or hearing someone speak in tongues (my mother). these aren't things people have told me or that i read in a book somewhere. these are things i have experienced and continue to experience.

this goes for the dark side of things too. one of my favorite quotes is "satans greatest trick was making people believe he doesn't exist". just as sure as i am that there is a God, i also know there is a satan. again, not through what people tell me or what i have read, but from what i have felt and seen through my life (from opression, posession, and influence).

there is a constant spiritual war taking place. there are many reports of saints (from all different places in the world) who have become so close to God that his presence is constantly with them. and satan hates this so much that he tries to intervene, often opressing, tricking and trying to block the path between the person and God.

i would recommend you look for the diary of sister faustina. i know they sell it on amazon. she was a polish nun who had visions of Christ and of hell. she describes the different levels of hell and how many people are there. she also took upon herself great pains from others as a sacrifice to God. it's definitely an interesting read, as she details her visions and her conversations with Christ. a much more modern version of how Christ views our society than the Bible.

ChewieTobbacca · 01-17-2005, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eomer
Stuff like that happens to me, well, I wouldn't say often. Maybe a couple times a year. But it happens often enough that I really would like to know just what the hell it is that causes it. Is it just my brain zoning out for a few seconds? Is there some physiological explanation? Or is there something more to it than that? I don't normally spend much time thinking about it, I am not really that into self-introspection or introspection about much of anything. But the last post got me thinking about it.

This is mentioned on the site i linked:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/exitmundi.htm

Under the hologram section , there is talk of how people do indeed zone out and have those same things.

Belefuu · 01-18-2005, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zinke
That 's kind of what the Omega Point theory is about.

Think of it like this, every entity in the universe, living or not, is doing and learning something, and trying to better itself. Atoms combine into molecules, molecules eventually for cells, cells form organs etc etc.. If life began as single celled organisms, and now we as humans are made up of trillions of those, who's to say one day all humans won't be like cells in a larger being.
At that point, and when the universe is approaching that Omega Point, the theory goes that the 'beings' that exist at that time will have unbelievable control over time and space, to the point that they can start resurrecting/recreating/reproducing all things that have happened before. All things that can be, will, and all things that have been, will be again. That's the Omega Point, or God.

So, yea, technically speaking if the universe is expanding infinitely, all possible scenarios will exist at some point in time. The cool thing about that, is science-fiction is not fiction, given a long enough time frame. A gun the size of your fist that can destroy a planet? Absolutely.

This reminds me a lot of Dan Simmon's Hyperion series, if you have happened to have read it. Besides being an absolutely phenomenal story, it deals with subjects such as our future and existence as solidly and bravely as anything I've read. One of the, I guess you would call it "theories", in the series is that life is just constantly growing, expanding, and evolving, and its goal is simply to fill the universe, to make it green so to speak. There are so many things in that series that just completely blow my mind, including a lot of Omega Point-ish ideas.

Just a plug for what I consider the best work of fiction I have ever experienced.

His latest series, Illium, which I have yet to read, but which has gotten similarly rave reviews, actually deals with super-advanced humanoids, as you described, who have made themselves after the Greek gods, and are completely reinacting, on a 1-to-1 scale, the Trojan war, and the events of the Illium. An interesting parallel to the alternate reality idea.

Zinke · 01-21-2005, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eomer
bunch of stuf about deja-vu

Based off your scenario, you may not like this explanation, but scientists are starting to agree that deja-vu is simply one eye registering things and sending it to the brain slightly before the other. Therefore, the memory of that image is already in your brain when the 2nd eye's information gets there, and you feel like what is currently happening, has happened before.

Zinke · 01-21-2005, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Belefuu
This reminds me a lot of Dan Simmon's Hyperion series, if you have happened to have read it. Besides being an absolutely phenomenal story, it deals with subjects such as our future and existence as solidly and bravely as anything I've read. One of the, I guess you would call it "theories", in the series is that life is just constantly growing, expanding, and evolving, and its goal is simply to fill the universe, to make it green so to speak. There are so many things in that series that just completely blow my mind, including a lot of Omega Point-ish ideas.

Just a plug for what I consider the best work of fiction I have ever experienced.

His latest series, Illium, which I have yet to read, but which has gotten similarly rave reviews, actually deals with super-advanced humanoids, as you described, who have made themselves after the Greek gods, and are completely reinacting, on a 1-to-1 scale, the Trojan war, and the events of the Illium. An interesting parallel to the alternate reality idea.

YES! That's the first place I heard of it, I thought it was interesting, and decided to look up if it was real or the author made it all up. The priest who believes in that theory, and being outcast by his fellow priests.. very cool character, though it's been awhile since I read it. The artificial and organic UIs (ultimate intelligences, not user interfaces!) were very cool too.

That new book sounds interesting, hopefully I'll have some more free time soon and I can read it. I've been reading alot of books related to my preferred career (film industry) and haven't had time for recreational sci-fi and fantasy stuff. Hyperion is one of those books I'd love to see made into a movie. The Shrike alone is cool enough to warrant it.

Eomer · 01-21-2005, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Based off your scenario, you may not like this explanation, but scientists are starting to agree that deja-vu is simply one eye registering things and sending it to the brain slightly before the other. Therefore, the memory of that image is already in your brain when the 2nd eye's information gets there, and you feel like what is currently happening, has happened before.

I don't buy that, not for a second. That just doesn't feel right, compared to what I feel when I am getting deja vu. And unless my right eyeball was hearing what my sister was saying before my left eyeball, it doesn't explain a damn thing really. And often the feeling makes it seem like I know what's going to happen multiple seconds before it does, not just fractions of a second.

Zinke · 01-21-2005, 01:22 PM

Well, this is the exact reason for religion and spirituality, imo. People don't like the explanations, because they've romanticized it in their own head, and the scientific or technical explanation lets them down. It's the same reason people enjoy magic. They don't understand it. It's the same reason we created myths in the old days.

Have you ever actually been able to voice what you think is going to happen, before it happens? No, you haven't. The eyes registering things differently causes your entire brain (including other senses) to think something is wrong and all the information being inputted (from your senses) register as already existing. It causes a state change in your brain, that lasts for many seconds.

No one who has ever experienced deja-vu has been able to voice what they think is about to happen, before it happens. They just go 'oh this seems familiar..' and then something else happens a few seconds later and they THEN say 'oh.. I knew that was gonna happen too!' I've had deja-vu alot, and it's definetly eerie the feeling you get, but I step back at look at it from a neutral point of view and it makes sense.

Eomer · 01-21-2005, 01:48 PM

I suppose you may be right, but somehow I doubt it. I am not a spiritual or religious person, as I have said. I like to find logical, scientific explanations to things. And yours just doesn't seem to fit the bill, in all honesty.

Zinke · 01-21-2005, 01:58 PM

The brain has chemicals fluctuating and synapses firing all the time. Occassionally, it makes a small mistake. Those mistakes are out of the realm of our normal understanding and produce weird feelings and perceptions. I mean, drug users that are on hallucinogens can tell you about the Pink elephant they met last night. It seemed real to them, but does that mean it happened that way? No. W

What's to say your brain screwing up and registering different inputs at different speeds, woudn't give you weird feelings of clairvoyance and deja-vu. This is what scientists came up with after doing studies on it, and I think it makes sense. It feels weird, because it goes against every idea I've had about the subject before, but logically it makes sense to me.

Belefuu · 01-21-2005, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zinke
Hyperion is one of those books I'd love to see made into a movie. The Shrike alone is cool enough to warrant it.

Well then, you might be interested to know that the entire Hyperion series is in the beginning stages of being made into what is rumored to be the largest scale adaptation of a work of fiction since LotR =P Happy news to me indeed. Very solid rumor also has it that it is to be a trilogy directed by Martin Scorcese, and starring Leo DiCaprio. Scorcese I think is great, Leo, eh, he gives me some pause, but I have no real problems with him. Apparently Simmons is to be very involved with the adaptation, so I have some hope that this could be something very special.

Zinke · 01-21-2005, 02:57 PM

Damnit.. I was hoping no one would ever do it, and I could be the genius producer who got it done someday. oh well

any links to this info? I don't see anything on imdb, and didn't hear anything on the movie sites I check.

Belefuu · 01-21-2005, 07:28 PM

There's really no solid info other than a movie definitely is going to be made. Don't think it's been started at all yet. Simmons hasn't announced the director yet, but at some book signing he hinted that the director and actor to do the series were in "some movie with a city, and some gangs", and recently on the rumors section of his site there was a comment about the fate of the Hyperion movies being tied in with the success of the Aviator.

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01-17-2005, 09:36 PM	#61 (permalink)
Eomer You mean I can change this? Neat! Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 9,810 +29 Internets	I actually do kind of believe that a lot of paranormal stuff really does happen, despite myself being a more or less complete atheist. Maybe that's not the right term for myself, though. I more just believe that there's an explanation for everything, a logical one that you can follow from point A to point B. At the same time, I think most "paranormal" crap you hear about are hoaxes, hallucinations, or just plain bullshit. But a lot of stuff really often is hard to explain with our current knowledge. But just reading about some of the very fancy dancy theoretical physics, like string and quantum theories, it certainly lends credence to a lot of paranormal shit having scientific explanations, even if we don't know what those are just yet. Maybe we never will. But with all the different dimensions and realities and universes that string theory predicts, it certainly doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility that once life or intelligence gets to a certain level or point, that it starts to trancend normal reality. Not sure if I can even begin to get my thoughts out properly on this. Perhaps people who are psychics (the very few who truly are) just have the ability to somehow tap into some unknown ability to truly see the future, or A future. Perhaps ghosts are just echo's of people who themselves were attuned to whatever it is I am talking about, and their consciousness is able to stick around simply by force of will. I can't say that I've ever had dreams about being someone else in a past life, I rarely remember my dreams in all honesty. And when I do they rarely if ever make any sense. But I do often get incredibly strong sense of deja vu, and sometimes it can persist for 30 seconds or a minute. I had one recently on Christmas Day, actually. My immediate family came over for brunch (was my turn this year) that morning. I moved into my place last year, and this was the first time my family has been at my place as a group, so it's not like I was remembering something from the past. As I was standing in the kitchen making eggs and bacon, I suddenly got a really strong sense of deja vu, like what was going on had happened before, and I kind of felt distant from myself, like I was watching over my own shoulder. I can't remember the details now, but it lasted for a good 30 seconds. I was even remembering what was about to happen. I thought to myself that my sister was about to say something, and sure enough a few seconds later she said what I was expecting. Then all of the sudden it was gone and I was back to normal. Stuff like that happens to me, well, I wouldn't say often. Maybe a couple times a year. But it happens often enough that I really would like to know just what the hell it is that causes it. Is it just my brain zoning out for a few seconds? Is there some physiological explanation? Or is there something more to it than that? I don't normally spend much time thinking about it, I am not really that into self-introspection or introspection about much of anything. But the last post got me thinking about it.

01-17-2005, 10:33 PM	#62 (permalink)
adalos Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 111 -1 Internets	my proof of God is my relationship with him. when you personally feel the presence of God (or the flip side of things). you don't rely on blind faith any more. unfortuneately, there is no way to transfer this to another person to let them see it. i have never visually seen God nor talked to him like i would talk to a person. however, i know he is there. and on numerous occassions, that presence that is usually just a faint feeling is transformed into something undeniable. things such as slaying of the spirit, deep focused prayer, taking part in an intense prayer group or hearing someone speak in tongues (my mother). these aren't things people have told me or that i read in a book somewhere. these are things i have experienced and continue to experience. this goes for the dark side of things too. one of my favorite quotes is "satans greatest trick was making people believe he doesn't exist". just as sure as i am that there is a God, i also know there is a satan. again, not through what people tell me or what i have read, but from what i have felt and seen through my life (from opression, posession, and influence). there is a constant spiritual war taking place. there are many reports of saints (from all different places in the world) who have become so close to God that his presence is constantly with them. and satan hates this so much that he tries to intervene, often opressing, tricking and trying to block the path between the person and God. i would recommend you look for the diary of sister faustina. i know they sell it on amazon. she was a polish nun who had visions of Christ and of hell. she describes the different levels of hell and how many people are there. she also took upon herself great pains from others as a sacrifice to God. it's definitely an interesting read, as she details her visions and her conversations with Christ. a much more modern version of how Christ views our society than the Bible.

01-21-2005, 01:22 PM	#68 (permalink)
Zinke I think I'm drunk enough to drive you home. Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: What is, is. Posts: 2,458 +0 Internets	Well, this is the exact reason for religion and spirituality, imo. People don't like the explanations, because they've romanticized it in their own head, and the scientific or technical explanation lets them down. It's the same reason people enjoy magic. They don't understand it. It's the same reason we created myths in the old days. Have you ever actually been able to voice what you think is going to happen, before it happens? No, you haven't. The eyes registering things differently causes your entire brain (including other senses) to think something is wrong and all the information being inputted (from your senses) register as already existing. It causes a state change in your brain, that lasts for many seconds. No one who has ever experienced deja-vu has been able to voice what they think is about to happen, before it happens. They just go 'oh this seems familiar..' and then something else happens a few seconds later and they THEN say 'oh.. I knew that was gonna happen too!' I've had deja-vu alot, and it's definetly eerie the feeling you get, but I step back at look at it from a neutral point of view and it makes sense.

01-21-2005, 01:48 PM	#69 (permalink)
Eomer You mean I can change this? Neat! Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 9,810 +29 Internets	I suppose you may be right, but somehow I doubt it. I am not a spiritual or religious person, as I have said. I like to find logical, scientific explanations to things. And yours just doesn't seem to fit the bill, in all honesty.

01-21-2005, 01:58 PM	#70 (permalink)
Zinke I think I'm drunk enough to drive you home. Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: What is, is. Posts: 2,458 +0 Internets	The brain has chemicals fluctuating and synapses firing all the time. Occassionally, it makes a small mistake. Those mistakes are out of the realm of our normal understanding and produce weird feelings and perceptions. I mean, drug users that are on hallucinogens can tell you about the Pink elephant they met last night. It seemed real to them, but does that mean it happened that way? No. W What's to say your brain screwing up and registering different inputs at different speeds, woudn't give you weird feelings of clairvoyance and deja-vu. This is what scientists came up with after doing studies on it, and I think it makes sense. It feels weird, because it goes against every idea I've had about the subject before, but logically it makes sense to me.

01-21-2005, 02:57 PM	#72 (permalink)
Zinke I think I'm drunk enough to drive you home. Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: What is, is. Posts: 2,458 +0 Internets	Damnit.. I was hoping no one would ever do it, and I could be the genius producer who got it done someday. oh well any links to this info? I don't see anything on imdb, and didn't hear anything on the movie sites I check.

01-21-2005, 07:28 PM	#73 (permalink)
Belefuu Poster Heavy Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 998 -1 Internets	There's really no solid info other than a movie definitely is going to be made. Don't think it's been started at all yet. Simmons hasn't announced the director yet, but at some book signing he hinted that the director and actor to do the series were in "some movie with a city, and some gangs", and recently on the rumors section of his site there was a comment about the fate of the Hyperion movies being tied in with the success of the Aviator.