God, nothingness, life, death...

[Vekruul Shuth]

Bored at work...I'll answer.

This will sound corny as fuck..I know.But anyway.

MY belief when we die is that its the same feeling you have when your in that deep dreamless sleep that makes you feel GREAT when you wake up.Nothing more.

Makes me feel better to believe this than in some silly heaven and hell and a God.

I also lean toward the big bang theory myself.It makes the most sense.There is SOME proof that this could have happened.And everyday we learn more and more that this may have being the case.The problem will always be the catch 22...How you get something outta nothing.

I'm also one to belive that people that follow a religion are scared of life in general.And of death obviously.They can't deal with the thought that its up to them to make something of themselves..and live thier lives as best they can..and how they see fit.Not having a God holding thier hand scares them...The same way a person feels when they lose thier entire family or something...Your alone.Its YOU and no support that is considered loving.God provides that to some.

My belief...Not knocking anyone.

As to what your asking...What is the meaning of life basically.How/Why we are here etc...

To live the best life we can and advance those that come behind us so that we as a species CAN have all the answers some day.Thats honestly what I believe.

[Kilivek]

God = kewl

Nothingness = who gives a shit it's nothing

life = kewl

death = gay

[Concerned Psychologist]

Before you read this I just want you to know that my views are slightly arrogant, because I'm a sociology major. (Anyone who has taken a class in sociology knows what I'm talking about, I assume)

That being said, it is very hard to ask the question "Where do we come from?" because the answer for any single person is always different. If a child asks where he comes from the child will reply, "The stork brought me," or my nephew will say, "Daddy parked his car in mommy's(gr?) garage." lol. If a teenager or young adult is asked the same question they know the answer. Same question, two different answers.

It's naive to think a child would know where we come from though. His parents or guardians told him the answer to the question he asked, and he tells other people that he knows and the notion is spread. Eventually the child will hear(or see) that people are born from other people.

My point is that, if you ask somebody "What is the meaning of life?" or "Where did particles come from?" They will tell you what they have observed and heard. If you ask a chief from an African Tribe, he will likley tell you a legend about water, darkness and animals.(That would be my best guess) If you ask Mrs. Christian next door she will tell you a tale of god and why god makes every question you have rationable. Bhuddists (or is it hindus?) will tell you that if you play your part in society you will be rewarded in your next life. If you ask an educated scientist with numerable doctarites(sp?) (s)he will probably tell you something about the big bang. The bottom line is, everyone is convinced that there is one answer or another, and if you(or anyone, I'm not trying to alienate you ) think everyone else is ignorant and you are a complete aetheist, then you believe your own beliefs, at least.

One thing we all have in common is that we believe in something. If you have questions about something throw yourself into the void of belief and follow it. If you believe you're being a tool of those beliefs follow your own path.


In conclusion, believe whatever you want or believe nothing, but you'll only be experiencing this infinite paradox of a question for another 70 years or so. (or however long doctors can learn to make us live)


If you still don't understand what I'm saying do what I did. Smoke a bowl, watch 12 monkeys and take some sociology classes at a community college.

[sarinrathe]

"The universe works on a math equation
that never even ever really ends in the end
Infinity spirals out creation"

A lot of people say: go with what works for you. If you're a scientific person, then follow the big bang, theory of evolution, etc. If you're a Christian, believe in the God of the Bible. Same thing for Muslims and Buddhists and all the rest.

I think they're all touching on the same thing.

All humans on earth share the same DNA. If our thoughts stem from that common heritage, the various beliefs we have are created through culture and environment. But the "feeling" and "yearning" to believe is innate. It's hardwired in your brain.

I've heard lots of Christians talk about having a "God-shaped box." Maybe that's why you're feeling so conflicted, Shogun.

Here's the thing - as long as you're searching, you will not find. You'll remain conflicted and confused, because for all practical purposes, the truth is impossible to find. You have to manufacture faith in something, it really doesn't matter. Once you do, however, it will become your truth.

And even if all the religions and scientific theories act as "metaphors" for the unknowable truth - I think that's still very beautiful and satisfying.

[He Hate Me]

If God does not exist it would be necessary to invent him.

[AngryGerbil]

But if what you say is true, and everything exists just simply because... I take no comfort in this, at all.

I doubt anyone does, which is why we invented God all those years ago when the first cro-magnons first started contemplating existence and, like us, had no answers. All religions are just branches of the one basic belief started ages ago by the first men that there is a higher power that we don't understand. To some, this thought is comforting. To others, this thought is scary.

I look at it quite simply. If there is a God and he loves me and wants me to go to heaven and make the "right" choices and go to church and pray and worship him and all that, that's cool, I can dig it, I mean, he's God after all. But I have no real reason to believe that any of this is true. So I don't do these things.

I mean, there's no hate for those who do do these things, they are free to. But for me, personally, the only reason I know about religions is because other people told them to me. That's hardly proof. Ever notice how Muslim parents raise Muslim children and Christian parents raise Christian children? Fucking amazing ain't it? =/

No, if God loves me and wants me to know stuff and do stuff, he'll tell me in person. He's God right? He created me right? So then, he should know that I'm not the kind of person that just believes anything other people tell me. He knows me, he knows I'd need absolute proof before I'd believe. So if he is as others say, and he is willing to send me to Hell because I do not believe in him, then I say he has the morals and the decency of a three year old child. Nope, he needs to show me, in person, what the answers are. Until then, I will continue to accept the fact that I don't know the answers, and he knows this he made me, therefore, I do not fear death or hell. Unless he just simply does not exist at all, in which case all of this is moot anyway. Either way, I am comfortable in these "conclusions".

So until that happens, I see no reason to alter my beliefs or lifestyle in order to satisfy pastor Jeff at the local church or cleric Aman at the local mosque. Or any real reason to believe in God in the first place.

[Vekruul Shuth]

So until that happens, I see no reason to alter my beliefs or lifestyle in order to satisfy pastor Jeff at the local church or cleric Aman at the local mosque. Or any real reason to believe in God in the first place.

So this kinda has to be asked....

Is "The Chruch" the biggest scam ever?

Do we even need this institution?

Is the control it provides an absolute neccesity?

[Phoenix]

Originally posted by He Hate Me
If God does not exist it would be necessary to invent him.

You sir, are no voltaire.

Religon was needed to bring people together. It gave everyone some common beliefs so they would somewhat work together.

Everysingle civilization had a central religon. Every successful one that is. Without, they would splinter and have massive wars. Just look at Africa.

[dak]

China

[AngryGerbil]

Is the control it provides an absolute neccesity?

No. But it is a self serving entity. Of course religion will let you believe that religion is the key to orderly civilization, why wouldn't it? Which is why you have Phoenix's reply above.

[Eomer]

And then there's the big bang theory and the theory of evolution. Ok, so there's a scientific theory as to how we all came to be and that everything was once nothing but for whatever reason something exploded OR started expanding for whatever reason... 13~ billion years ago. Out of nothingness, became existence? How could this be without an ultimate being that has always existed?

Now if you ask me, that makes no sense either. If everything were once nothingness, how could something just come to be? That does not make sense in the slightest. Nobody knows anything as far as that goes and this is all just theory as well. What does the big bang theory boil down to? Faith.

At this point scientists/physicists are still doing their damndest to understand the big bang, and find a theory that explains it. At this point, they are getting pretty close. You can read up on String Theory and so on if you want, but what it boils down to is that chances are, there are parallel universes and dimensions and god knows what else, and "something" never came from "nothing." Nova had a couple pretty interesting shows on it over the weekend.

As far as believing that the Big Bang happened, or something similar to it, being an act of faith, I disagree. Faith is believing in something without factual evidence or backing, believing in something that isn't knowable. There is lots of evidence of the big bang (they have even pegged it as having happened 13.7 billion years ago, give or take a hundred million years) and so on. It may not be fully understood yet, but it's becoming apparent that it happened. When Newton created his laws of gravity and physics, he never explained how or why gravity worked. He didn't understand what was causing gravity to act the way it did. Nobody did until Einstein's theory of general relativity roughly three centuries later. But that doesn't mean that Newton was wrong with his formula's, they're still an amazing approximation of the effects of gravity and more than adequate for sending spacecraft around our solar system.

None of the above necessarily discounts the existence of god, or proves he does exist. The whole idea of god or gods is that they are unknowable and allpowerful. Perhaps god set up the laws of the universe (our at least, our universe) to be just perfect for our eventual development, 13.7 billion years down the road. Lots of scientists and researchers start to "see god in the numbers", because so many things seem to work out so perfectly. Change one little value or constant or equation, and our universe becomes unliveable or sustainable.

Does that prove god? Maybe, maybe he set things up just right for us. Or maybe our own existence is the reason for our universe being perfect, as we couldn't have developed in any of the other inifinite number of universes with different physical laws. It's a philosophical question, when you get right down to it.

In summary, I would like to say that if not carried too far by people that are idiotic and extreme, regardless of its truth or not, certain religion is a good thing. Why? It's a good way to learn how to lead your life, if you care about being a good person at all and aren't capable of being one solely on your own.

I agree to some extent, but disagree somewhat as well. Religion itself isn't necessarily bad, it can be used for a lot of good. Same as faith. But at the same time, they can be tremendous forces of evil, just look at the crusades or modern terrorism. The Catholic Church's stance on condoms in the face of an incredible AIDS epidemic in Africa and elsewhere is another great example. Sure, you might get AIDS, you might have a child that you can't feed (that might have AIDS as well), but you'll go to hell if you use a condom!

As far as giving people a set of values and rules to live by, again I suppose that's alright, so long as the values and rules are good. And with most religions, they are. But I also think that's kind of a weakness, and cheap way out. You can't be a good person in your life without the threat of punishment in the afterlife? How good of a person are you truly if you are doing a good deed only because you think god's watching, as opposed to someone who does it without that belief?

[He Hate Me]

Originally posted by Phoenix
You sir, are no voltaire.

Religon was needed to bring people together. It gave everyone some common beliefs so they would somewhat work together.

Everysingle civilization had a central religon. Every successful one that is. Without, they would splinter and have massive wars. Just look at Africa.

That's pretty much what I meant. I'm glad you explained it further. I would go into more detail, but I'd rather look at Africa.

And you are no Hawking.

[Kan]

Originally posted by Vekruul Shuth
So this kinda has to be asked....

Is "The Chruch" the biggest scam ever?

Do we even need this institution?

Is the control it provides an absolute neccesity?

i for one believe in God and try and do the right things etc but as far as Church goes i find that a decent amount are atleast in some ways corrupt. Catholoscism imo is the number 1 offender in this category they have altered things in the bible (granted the present Bible is also altered from the original text by King James) to suit themselves so that Priests/Bishops/Cardinals/Pope etc have alot of power and are considered "holy" no man is holy and to claim being holy imo is a perversion of the Church.

All in all i believe the Church at its core is a good thing but man has corrupted a decent amount of them. I for one dont go to Church but i pray i try to learn about Christianity more then i already know but for me Church isnt where i find myself wanting to be when learning those things cause i believe (atleast in my area) that a decent amount of Churches and heads of Church tainted the true purpose of a Church.

[Templor]

Originally posted by Shogon
I must admit that the thought of there being no God is extremely frightening and can lead to anxiety (for me at least). Just dying and that's it? No more anything for you. Obviously this is something we can't control if it's true, and we're all headed to the same fate... but the thought is so scary(for me) that we'll(I'll) never be able to experience anything ever again or even exist ever again just is absolutely... mind consumingly frightening. Even though this world isn't perfect, I think it is better to exist than to not exist.

I don't believe in God and I believe that when I die I'm dead, completly. I don't let it bother me because I know before I was born I didn't exist. It will be the exact same thing: nothing. If you truely believe in death being the end of your existance you shouldn't be frightened by it because you will never have the chance to know if you were right or wrong.

[Xandax]

Well I just got done looking through this post so I'll put my high school theories amd thoughts to the test.

I agree with what Templor said that when you die, you are dead and there is no afterlife, no reason to fret going into death with any regret because there will be nothing to regret. Your soul ( essentially the synapsis and connections in the brain, whatever you wanna call it) is no more. Just as before you are born. You come from nothing, nothing is you.

Religion - heh living in the Bible Belt of the South is quite a good laugh at the state of religion. Basically I think religion is or in the beginning was a reason for people to work and coincide peacefully with a single purpose. And all the sins and ect.. are just reasons to stay moral and be a good citizen. I don't think it was ment to be a way of controlling people, but like someone earlier said that it has been aimed and altered to turn followers into warriors for holy wars, "I'm fighting because my religion > yours and if I don't do this I will be denied access into a nonexistant plane of reality or an existant grave of my corpse."

As far as Science, eh this to isn't a 100% law and those that believe that the Big Bang theory, or whatever theory that is out there, is how it works are just as bad as people that follow a religion. You are following this belief, dogma, blindly just as a Christian or a Muslim or a Jew. There are no facts or hard evidence that proves this to be true.

However I do find many of the laws of Nature and Physics to fit my Agnostic situation of life.

My Step-Mom is a Buddhist, her sect is her own beliefs from this teacher and that teacher combined with her own meditation on life, and I think this is how every person should live their life. You should gather your own thoughts from here and there and what you find true and whatnot, this is your life. She basically converted me to total agnostic from a believer of the Big Bang Theory. She told me everything must depend on something else. Such that where did the Big Bang come from if nothing was before it, and ect. If something caused the Big Bang where did this Big Bang-starter come from ? Try to find 1 single example of independent existance in the universe.. you can't. If you do however find this example of complete indepency, you my friend have found the reason and the cold hard facts of the existance of the universe, Congratulations.

The purpose of life, in my eyes, is to not only to live your life as a human being but to further the species to perfection and to find an environment where everything coexists, if you will say. This is my reason for being moral and straight-edge, straight-edge being no drugs, no alcohol, anything that effects the mind or even regulates your body, hell I hate taking asprin or anything that is alien to the body.

I really enjoyed reading these posts, like I said I never get to swap ideas of existance and life ect, I live in teh fuggin Bible Belt.
Reading these posts is like feeling high, I've never felt high before but, to me it's a feeling of being completely free and wondering about life and where the universe began and how.

anyway peace...