Start-up niche MMORPG looking for environmental artist - Page 2

Trollface · 11-22-2011, 01:11 PM

not much of a programmer or computer geek, but good luck.
looks interesting,
please have p0rn.

Rodolfo · 11-23-2011, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarcath

storybricks system looks interesting

Thanks, this is the best writeup we got so far
Theory by Flatfingers: Storybricks: The Rehumanization of Roleplaying Games

Probably next week we are going to annonce the release date (aka real soon honest™)

Hachima · 11-25-2011, 07:59 PM

The thing that this system seems to be missing is the ability of a GM to improvise on the fly. In tabletop games, the story teller has several scenarios he has planned and wants to tell depending on what choices the players make. If people are taking actions that are going to destroy the story, the GM can improvise, and a bee suddenly fly's up the heroes nose etc. The ability to improvise on the fly to make something interesting isn't something you can define in a story brick.

A good GM allows the story to flow in unique paths, but is still a gatekeeper for things becoming too absurd. They also have some goals in mind to direct the heroes to a well thought out story/scenario/encounter. This goes far beyond relationships/reactions to events.

I'm sure many of us have played the whole start a story, tell it for 2 min and pass it off to the left and let them continue. This is the same type of thought process that makes a fun dynamic story.
With storybricks it still seems like outcomes are already determined by someone.

The value in this system may be a way to make scripting storlines easier. I don't see it being able to "tell interactive stories as good as those of their tabletop progenitors" though. Human stories require much more than interpreting relationships and how to respond to events that take place.

The constraints that would need to be in place to keep the world in some sane state, are the same things that prevent stories from being as dynamic as a tabletop game.

So you end up like a system CoH has for player created content. Most people don't participate in the content for the story. Most players don't have the ability to write a good story. So you end up with a bunch of junk. What players do care about is the path of least resistance. If there is some reward for your story, and its faster than other stuff available. People will participate in it.

A perfect AI would have NPCs you couldn't distinguish from a GM driven event (M59/EQ1 type GM events). Now think if any player could run something like a GM event.... You will end up with all sorts of garbage content. So what type of constraints do you need to keep things playable? As soon as you introduce constraints and the impact people can make, the more scripted the experience will feel.

While I don't have much faith in the storyblock system as it has been explained, it is will be interesting to see what influence Psychochild has. Being an old M59 player from the beta days, I've followed his blog Psychochild's Blog and he has a lot of good insight I think. If anyone out there has the experience and ideas to break the mold of what is out there now for MMOs, I'd say he'd be one of the best people for the job.

Etwynn · 11-28-2011, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hachima

A good GM allows the story to flow in unique paths, but is still a gatekeeper for things becoming too absurd. They also have some goals in mind to direct the heroes to a well thought out story/scenario/encounter. This goes far beyond relationships/reactions to events.

Totally agree. I think that the system would be a good framework for a meaningful quest/lore system where players could feel like they're interacting with the world. However, you need to design various epic story-paths a player/server could follow or else it will feel like a jumbled mess. You can't expect this to work in a "sandbox" sense--multiple, competing pre-planned story-routes is going to be a must-have.

Rodolfo · 11-28-2011, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etwynn

Totally agree. I think that the system would be a good framework for a meaningful quest/lore system where players could feel like they're interacting with the world. However, you need to design various epic story-paths a player/server could follow or else it will feel like a jumbled mess. You can't expect this to work in a "sandbox" sense--multiple, competing pre-planned story-routes is going to be a must-have.

We're looking at adding a GM mode (Ryzom Ring had one) but it might not be in this release. I do agree that 99% of user created content is bad, so in order to manage that you have to 1) take away control from the player to some extent (offer them meaningful choices, not the ability to do everything) and 2) a feedback system where bad content gets downgraded.

But Storybricks in this iteration is not meant to let you play D&D with a GM. The problem we are trying to solve is that the dungeon crawling experience has been simulated pretty well by CRPGs but when you go to town everything has to be scripted and there is a lack of understanding of context. Cities are not "alive". At least not the ones in Azeroth.

Hachima- regarding the path of least resistance, we are looking at a different advancement system. Don't want to end up like CoH where you either had "death trap dungeons" or just large missions with the ending quest spawning next to the entrance point so you could grind it over and over.

But I want to make a very important point (and will make it over and over). MMOs take years to develop and the state of the toolchain is pretty miserable. For this reason there has been very few innovation in the space. You normally announce it when you have worked on them for 3 years. Wildstar (the new Carbine MMO) might end up being 11 years in development before it's released. We are working on the tech and then on the game and being very open about it from day 1 that we are showing an early release that we have been working on for just a few months.

Psychochild is the MMO Wizard here (it's his real title). I am seeing him tomorrow and might do a quick dev video. If you have any questions ask away.

Psychochild · 12-02-2011, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hachima

While I don't have much faith in the storyblock system as it has been explained, it is will be interesting to see what influence Psychochild has. Being an old M59 player from the beta days, I've followed his blog Psychochild's Blog and he has a lot of good insight I think. If anyone out there has the experience and ideas to break the mold of what is out there now for MMOs, I'd say he'd be one of the best people for the job.

First of all, thanks for posting that. This is not the first time that Rodolfo has heard that, so he knows once again how valuable I am to the project. You added a bit more job security for me.

Okay, but seriously, I understand your issues. As you probably know from reading my blog, I've been a cranky bastard about MMOs. I've lamented how we've been stuck in a rut. I think that Storybricks has the potential to do something very different in MMOs.

But, we're being honest with ourselves at Namaste. We don't have 100% proof that we are right and that we will succeed. This is one reason why we are acting more like a tech company than a traditional game company. We want to release the tool quickly for people to use so that we can get feedback rather than developing in isolation for years then releasing a most likely flawed product. To that end, I encourage you to sign up to test. We hope to have something to release early in the new year and we want feedback from people. Keep in mind this will be a test of the tool itself more than the releaseof a full game.

To address your questions about GM abilities: as Rodolfo said, we've thought about that. We've looked at other toolkits like Ryzom Ring or the Aurora toolset from Neverwinter Nights. The beauty of the Storybricks concept is that it's very flexible; I see the possibility to set up triggers that a GM could activate while guiding others through the game. Obviously there is the possibility for abuse, though.

As I said, right now we're focusing on the tool and making that useful. We're considering possibilities for future use, but we're going to rely heavily on the direction that our audience gives us. We're looking at a number of possibilities, from creating our own MMO for people to create stories in to allowing people to create thier own little game universes where they can do something like run their own D&D type campaigns in. Eventually we'd like to do it all because there are a lot of possibilities, but in the short term we have to narrow our focus down to something specific.

Anyway, I'm super-excited about Storybricks. I've tried not to post too much on my blog about that as I don't want it to feel like mindless "OMG STORYBRICKS!" advertising. (I just removed another dev's blog from my RSS reader because it had turned merely to advertising about his current project.) But, don't think I'm not very excited to be working on it.

Hope that gives you some things to consider. Please do sign up for the beta on our site! We need more good people giving us feedback.

P.S. which server were you on in M59?

Hachima · 12-03-2011, 12:16 PM

Thanks for coming here to post. I'll be sure to follow the development of StoryBricks. It sounds like an 'Agile' development approach with involving the user from the beginning and going through many small iterations. Games and especially MMOs haven't involved the user so early though, like it sounds you plan on doing.

I tried to sign up but the form is a little brokeny. It clears all the fields on submission without any feedback on the webpage that it was successful, but I did get an e-mail conformation and successfully subscribed.

I guess I'm not surprised to see Sims listed as a game played on the form either. It has some aspects that I was thinking this system would expand upon. NPCs that move around so you don't always see them in a static spot. Sometimes you see them in the field/sometimes the bar etc. For me, I think the 'fun' aspect of things like this is when you set up an initial set of rules with an potentially unknown outcome. In tabletop games this come from your players interacting with your creation.

Maybe in a MMO Bob collects grapes for a reward. After a while maybe he moves to another town to start a winery, or maybe he starts a farm to grow his own grapes. Maybe some bandits piss him off and he starts looking for mercenaries to kill them. Basically the idea that a story block can be set up so there are multiple outcomes for an event, some with higher chances than others. An element of surprise, that even the story creator can experience as he plays.

I played on server 100,101,109 mainly for M59. I was Stick/Big Bird. I leveled up EQ to 99% and devastated entire maps, and it was a big factor in creating the gnarled staff =) Then my character was nerfed so my max mana/EQ damage worked differently than everyone else even though I was playing legit! Fun times though =)

Sythrak · 12-03-2011, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hachima

I played on server 100,101,109 mainly for M59. I was Stick/Big Bird. I leveled up EQ to 99% and devastated entire maps, and it was a big factor in creating the gnarled staff =) Then my character was nerfed so my max mana/EQ damage worked differently than everyone else even though I was playing legit! Fun times though =)

Haha, 1 int qor/kran/wc/faren masters. Good times. Me and two buddies pretty much terrorized 102 with those builds.

Psychochild · 12-04-2011, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hachima

Thanks for coming here to post.

Sure thing. I've read these forums for a while, but figured since there was interesting discussion on Storybricks I'd get Rodolfo to donate for posting privileges.

Quote:

It sounds like an 'Agile' development approach with involving the user from the beginning and going through many small iterations. Games and especially MMOs haven't involved the user so early though, like it sounds you plan on doing.

Well, to be blunt, that's because more MMOs are paint-by-numbers affairs where devs design, "instead of elves, we'll have ethereal fae spirts!" We're doing something quite different and the point is to get a tool that is useful for people to actually use. Feedback is an important part of that process.

[quote[I tried to sign up but the form is a little brokeny. It clears all the fields on submission without any feedback on the webpage that it was successful, but I did get an e-mail conformation and successfully subscribed.[/quote]
You should be fine, but we'll get that form fixed up soon.

Quote:

For me, I think the 'fun' aspect of things like this is when you set up an initial set of rules with an potentially unknown outcome. In tabletop games this come from your players interacting with your creation.

Exactly. We want it to be interesting to interact with the system. One neat thing is that the less details you specify via the Storybricks, the more the system fills in for you; this can lead to interesting results that even the storyteller didn't anticipate. But, I do want to avoid the problem that some AI work suffers from where the players feel mostly extraneous to the situation.

Quote:

I played on server 100,101,109 mainly for M59. I was Stick/Big Bird. I leveled up EQ to 99% and devastated entire maps, and it was a big factor in creating the gnarled staff =) Then my character was nerfed so my max mana/EQ damage worked differently than everyone else even though I was playing legit! Fun times though =)

Hehe.

M59 still has a place in my heart even though I'm not working with it anymore. I think it's really fascinating how all the people interacting caused the game to be really unpredictable. In a way, I'm hoping to do the same thing with Storybricks.

Anyway, thanks for your feedback.

We should have forums set up for Storybricks soon so we can have good on-topic conversations on there.

Rodolfo · 12-18-2011, 10:57 AM

Posted a video dev diary on Massively (in which we announce the release date)
Namaste Entertainment trumpets upcoming Storybricks beta | Massively

Hachima · 02-03-2012, 09:27 PM

I filled out my alpha/beta survey. Hopefully I get to try out the SDK soon =)

According to the forums

Quote:

Here it is, fill all questions and you get an invite (instructions inside) - no questions asked! (well.. kinda)
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Storybricks

Zarcath · 02-03-2012, 10:56 PM

also filled out the survey. would be very interested in testing your editor

Rodolfo · 02-05-2012, 04:11 PM

SDK should be out by Feb 23th-29th depending on how many fatal bugs we encounter over the next few days and if we have no surprises when importing art assets into the engine.

But thanks so much for filling the survey, will make sure you get in both alpha and beta (and let me know if you have issues with your desired username). First release it's completely bare bones with almost zero functionalities but at least you get to experiment the story bricks and try the emotional system of the NPCs. It's mostly to get feedback and make sure we build priorities based on user feedback (like, there is not even combat built in right now).

Anyone going to be at DICE in Las Vegas this week?

Jalynfane · 02-08-2012, 11:26 AM

Thanks for having an actual survey made by humans and not corporate folk that are just looking for canned data. 8)

Hope this works out for you guys, can't wait to start creating content (to hopefully good user reviews)

Rodolfo · 02-14-2012, 03:28 AM

Did I say Feb 23th-29th? I totally meant March 9th. We have some invites under NDA for the Feb release date anyway, so drop me an email at rodolfo/storybricks/com with the email you used to register if you want in before anyone else. (Delay is not due to bugs but we are timing for a conference)

02-03-2012, 10:56 PM	#27 (permalink)
Zarcath 100% Asian Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 7,950 +107 Internets	also filled out the survey. would be very interested in testing your editor __________________ Join the FoH BF3 XBox Platoon

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11-22-2011, 01:11 PM	#16 (permalink)
Trollface Registred User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,181 -43 Internets	not much of a programmer or computer geek, but good luck. looks interesting, please have p0rn.

11-25-2011, 07:59 PM	#18 (permalink)
Hachima Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,448	The thing that this system seems to be missing is the ability of a GM to improvise on the fly. In tabletop games, the story teller has several scenarios he has planned and wants to tell depending on what choices the players make. If people are taking actions that are going to destroy the story, the GM can improvise, and a bee suddenly fly's up the heroes nose etc. The ability to improvise on the fly to make something interesting isn't something you can define in a story brick. A good GM allows the story to flow in unique paths, but is still a gatekeeper for things becoming too absurd. They also have some goals in mind to direct the heroes to a well thought out story/scenario/encounter. This goes far beyond relationships/reactions to events. I'm sure many of us have played the whole start a story, tell it for 2 min and pass it off to the left and let them continue. This is the same type of thought process that makes a fun dynamic story. With storybricks it still seems like outcomes are already determined by someone. The value in this system may be a way to make scripting storlines easier. I don't see it being able to "tell interactive stories as good as those of their tabletop progenitors" though. Human stories require much more than interpreting relationships and how to respond to events that take place. The constraints that would need to be in place to keep the world in some sane state, are the same things that prevent stories from being as dynamic as a tabletop game. So you end up like a system CoH has for player created content. Most people don't participate in the content for the story. Most players don't have the ability to write a good story. So you end up with a bunch of junk. What players do care about is the path of least resistance. If there is some reward for your story, and its faster than other stuff available. People will participate in it. A perfect AI would have NPCs you couldn't distinguish from a GM driven event (M59/EQ1 type GM events). Now think if any player could run something like a GM event.... You will end up with all sorts of garbage content. So what type of constraints do you need to keep things playable? As soon as you introduce constraints and the impact people can make, the more scripted the experience will feel. While I don't have much faith in the storyblock system as it has been explained, it is will be interesting to see what influence Psychochild has. Being an old M59 player from the beta days, I've followed his blog Psychochild's Blog and he has a lot of good insight I think. If anyone out there has the experience and ideas to break the mold of what is out there now for MMOs, I'd say he'd be one of the best people for the job.

12-03-2011, 12:16 PM	#22 (permalink)
Hachima Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,448	Thanks for coming here to post. I'll be sure to follow the development of StoryBricks. It sounds like an 'Agile' development approach with involving the user from the beginning and going through many small iterations. Games and especially MMOs haven't involved the user so early though, like it sounds you plan on doing. I tried to sign up but the form is a little brokeny. It clears all the fields on submission without any feedback on the webpage that it was successful, but I did get an e-mail conformation and successfully subscribed. I guess I'm not surprised to see Sims listed as a game played on the form either. It has some aspects that I was thinking this system would expand upon. NPCs that move around so you don't always see them in a static spot. Sometimes you see them in the field/sometimes the bar etc. For me, I think the 'fun' aspect of things like this is when you set up an initial set of rules with an potentially unknown outcome. In tabletop games this come from your players interacting with your creation. Maybe in a MMO Bob collects grapes for a reward. After a while maybe he moves to another town to start a winery, or maybe he starts a farm to grow his own grapes. Maybe some bandits piss him off and he starts looking for mercenaries to kill them. Basically the idea that a story block can be set up so there are multiple outcomes for an event, some with higher chances than others. An element of surprise, that even the story creator can experience as he plays. I played on server 100,101,109 mainly for M59. I was Stick/Big Bird. I leveled up EQ to 99% and devastated entire maps, and it was a big factor in creating the gnarled staff =) Then my character was nerfed so my max mana/EQ damage worked differently than everyone else even though I was playing legit! Fun times though =)

12-18-2011, 10:57 AM	#25 (permalink)
Rodolfo Registered User Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: London, UK Posts: 46 +2 Internets	Posted a video dev diary on Massively (in which we announce the release date) Namaste Entertainment trumpets upcoming Storybricks beta \| Massively

02-05-2012, 04:11 PM	#28 (permalink)
Rodolfo Registered User Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: London, UK Posts: 46 +2 Internets	SDK should be out by Feb 23th-29th depending on how many fatal bugs we encounter over the next few days and if we have no surprises when importing art assets into the engine. But thanks so much for filling the survey, will make sure you get in both alpha and beta (and let me know if you have issues with your desired username). First release it's completely bare bones with almost zero functionalities but at least you get to experiment the story bricks and try the emotional system of the NPCs. It's mostly to get feedback and make sure we build priorities based on user feedback (like, there is not even combat built in right now). Anyone going to be at DICE in Las Vegas this week?

02-08-2012, 11:26 AM	#29 (permalink)
Jalynfane Phank Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 555	Thanks for having an actual survey made by humans and not corporate folk that are just looking for canned data. 8) Hope this works out for you guys, can't wait to start creating content (to hopefully good user reviews)

02-14-2012, 03:28 AM	#30 (permalink)
Rodolfo Registered User Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: London, UK Posts: 46 +2 Internets	Did I say Feb 23th-29th? I totally meant March 9th. We have some invites under NDA for the Feb release date anyway, so drop me an email at rodolfo/storybricks/com with the email you used to register if you want in before anyone else. (Delay is not due to bugs but we are timing for a conference)