Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac - the big bailout? - Page 29

prescient63 · 09-16-2008, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morbeas

You're an idiot that clearly does not understand the overall picture.

You're not looking at it from Paulson's point of view regarding moral hazard.

Cad · 09-16-2008, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morbeas

Well, it seems the Fed will bail AIG via a $85B loan for an 80% stake in the company. While I do think AIG should be saved, I'm not sure I approve of the Fed's stance on it. Hell, why wait 'till now? If they had done this back on Sunday, the Fed would have only had to come up with $25B or so. Also, why punish the stockholders?

What is the Fed going to do with an 80% stake in AIG? Dump it when it's profitable again?

Lyrical · 09-16-2008, 10:12 PM

I came very close to buying a ton of AIG shares this morning when it was at $1.25 a share. I think it ended at $5 a share by the end of the day. I am kind of kicking myself for not doing it. Its a huge gain.

Right now people are so scared that I bet a savvy investor/trader could make a ton of money. It might be a good time to buy and sell off the news.

rinthea · 09-16-2008, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morbeas

Well, it seems the Fed will bail AIG via a $85B loan for an 80% stake in the company. While I do think AIG should be saved, I'm not sure I approve of the Fed's stance on it. Hell, why wait 'till now? If they had done this back on Sunday, the Fed would have only had to come up with $25B or so. Also, why punish the stockholders?

If you think about what you said about saving it on sunday and only costing $25 billion for a minute, you realize just how ludicrous this is. To believe this, you have to accept that the company is worth $60 billion (according to the lastest fictious credit rating) less than it was on friday. Why would it be? Because some corrupt credit rating agency lowered its rating on its debt? Get off it, the debt was always bad, its always going to cost a lot more.

Why punish stockholders? WHY THE FUCK NOT? They own a company that is worth NEGATIVE value, get it, if it wasn't for limited liability (which is a great thing) they would OWE EVERYONE MONEY. You want the US taxpayer to pay to save their business to attempt to avoid contagion AND to prop up their shareprice?

ps i covered my sp shorts at 1171.5... fuck i'm good

Eduardo · 09-16-2008, 11:00 PM

FED bails AIG allegedly confirmed:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/17/bu...=1&oref=slogin

You know, I was almost hoping that AIG would just fail to really get the ball rolling.

Comrades! Pass the Vodka!
FT.com / In depth - Russia halts trading after 17% share price fall

I haven't bothered looking at the asian markets. How are they?

chu · 09-16-2008, 11:02 PM

Cool, so the US feds is holding a lot of good stuff. I wonder when their IPO is.

I sold off most of my financials earlier this year during one of the dead cat bounces. The bottom line is that there's absolutely no fucking way I can determine the value of any financial company anymore; there just isn't a viable way with all the smoke and mirrors they hide behind. If someone told me 2 years ago that BS and Lehmans would have gone down, I'd have never believed them. It would have been a ludicrous statement.

Soriak · 09-16-2008, 11:20 PM

Oh great, the guys with the money press got it. I really, really hope they had a chat with the other two giant insurers, because I'm pretty sure they were interested in buying AIG - they certainly had the money for it.

Hal2005 · 09-16-2008, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soriak

Oh great, the guys with the money press got it. I really, really hope they had a chat with the other two giant insurers, because I'm pretty sure they were interested in buying AIG - they certainly had the money for it.

Wasn't the point. You can't let insurance become a seized market in the same way you need emergency meetings if the debt paper does not roll over at a digestable 'beep' spread.

painbringer · 09-17-2008, 12:27 AM

Thank god robin hood came in and saved the day.

Take from the rich (everyone with savings) and give to the poor... minting 85 B sure isnt gonna be seen on inflation.. lol.

Miele · 09-17-2008, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soriak

In unrelated news: Italian airline Alitalia is gone as well. Unions blocked attempted buyouts because they'd have lost a few thousand jobs... now they're all gone. Fucking idiots, but opens up a new market for more competitive airlines.

Unions blocked buyouts because those employers were asked to renounce idiotic favouritisms and work more for less money by a possible buyout, but due to our regulations, they can just choose to NOT work for the same amount of money (for about 3 years max), from their point of view there is no real choice, is there?
Add the fact that 80% of those protesting don't understand a shit of what's going on and protest just because they are told is the right thing to do.

Unions are one of the worse thing of our country, that and the commies who are possibly the only ones still existing in the world (albeit kicked out of parliament in the last elections, not sure it will last tho).
They were those giving jobs to those people that should be fired (or "relocated") years ago and are now not there to be held responsible.

---

On another topic, about finance, I still hold dearly on the words of the great Terry Pratchett:

"[...] But in truth it had not exactly been gold, or even the promise of gold, but more like the fantasy of gold, the fairy dream that gold is there, at the end of the rainbow, and will continue to be there for ever provided, naturally, that you don't go and look.
This is know as Finance.
[...]"

"[...]
It was garbage, but it had been cooked by an expert. Oh, yes. You had to admire the way perfectly innocent words were mugged, ravished, stripped of all true meaning and decency and then sent to walk the gutter for Reacher Gilt, although 'synergistically' had probably been a whore right from the start.
[...]"

prescient63 · 09-17-2008, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soriak

Oh great, the guys with the money press got it. I really, really hope they had a chat with the other two giant insurers, because I'm pretty sure they were interested in buying AIG - they certainly had the money for it.

The only other insurer that was interested in buying was GenRe as they were the only ones I know of with the cash on hand to handle that size of transaction, and Buffet decided to stay away.

Phoenix · 09-17-2008, 08:11 AM

So what exactly is the point of running a legitimate company? Why play smart if daddy government will be right along with the taxpayer's pocket book to save your backwards ass ran company?

Only question now is how long until the likes of GM and Ford get their money.

Arbitrary · 09-17-2008, 08:31 AM

Time to start printing plus size T-Shirts with the phrase "Too Big to Fail" on them. I'm sure the tubbies would love 'em.

Cad · 09-17-2008, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix

So what exactly is the point of running a legitimate company? Why play smart if daddy government will be right along with the taxpayer's pocket book to save your backwards ass ran company?

Only question now is how long until the likes of GM and Ford get their money.

I'm sure you realize that the Fed is taking 80% of the company as payment for the loan, so the "owners" of the company aren't the owners anymore. I guess you could say the stockholders of GM and Ford hope to run those companies into the ground so they can.... lose their stock?

Good plan.

Brand · 09-17-2008, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by painbringer

Thank god robin hood came in and saved the day.

Take from the rich (everyone with savings) and give to the REALLY rich... minting 85 B sure isnt gonna be seen on inflation.. lol.

Fixed that for you...Because you know the only people making money of this are the greedy fucks playing the game.

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09-16-2008, 11:00 PM	#425 (permalink)
Eduardo Cinnamilk cures homeopathy Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 573 -8 Internets	FED bails AIG allegedly confirmed: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/17/bu...=1&oref=slogin You know, I was almost hoping that AIG would just fail to really get the ball rolling. Comrades! Pass the Vodka! FT.com / In depth - Russia halts trading after 17% share price fall I haven't bothered looking at the asian markets. How are they?

09-16-2008, 11:02 PM	#426 (permalink)
chu Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,090 -38 Internets	Cool, so the US feds is holding a lot of good stuff. I wonder when their IPO is. I sold off most of my financials earlier this year during one of the dead cat bounces. The bottom line is that there's absolutely no fucking way I can determine the value of any financial company anymore; there just isn't a viable way with all the smoke and mirrors they hide behind. If someone told me 2 years ago that BS and Lehmans would have gone down, I'd have never believed them. It would have been a ludicrous statement.

09-16-2008, 11:20 PM	#427 (permalink)
Soriak Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Switzerland Posts: 5,021 +38 Internets	Oh great, the guys with the money press got it. I really, really hope they had a chat with the other two giant insurers, because I'm pretty sure they were interested in buying AIG - they certainly had the money for it.

09-17-2008, 12:27 AM	#429 (permalink)
painbringer Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 263	Thank god robin hood came in and saved the day. Take from the rich (everyone with savings) and give to the poor... minting 85 B sure isnt gonna be seen on inflation.. lol.