SAN Fabrics

Baerf · 07-01-2009, 02:15 PM

Not sure where this should go with regards the forums placement, so if not in the right place please move and accept my apologies.

Anyone here have any experience in SAN fabrics? And more so the real nitty-gritty part of it? Just been on a Brocade course and it interested the hell out of me - never been a networking type of person, but i can see why people get into now.

To be honest the course was a step above my skill-set (was advanced theory, when i should of been on the fundamentals) but i got a good 70% of it.

I can see this becoming one of the core basics of IT (more so than now - as compliance hasn't really moved into this as yet), but looking at the vendors (Brocade, Cisco, EMC etc..) with each vendor being completely different, does anyone have any insight on what vendor product is looking to be the main one? (i.e. Network = Cisco, Virtualise = VMWare).

Basically i want to start looking into specializing in one of the vendors, but don't want to specialize in a dead-duck.

Candiarie · 07-01-2009, 04:05 PM

I've worked with it kind of minimally, from unpacking and racking to getting that shit in production. I was learning from a much much more experienced engineer though. I haven't had a problem moving from EMC and Comp at least. It seemed like it was a lot of just knowing their different names for things. We don't really get into it too much as a whole fabric here though (no multiple sites or anything like that). How are you planning on specializing in it? Usually people get into SAN storage via networking and from your post it doesn't sound like your current job directly deals with that.

rolin · 07-02-2009, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baerf

I can see this becoming one of the core basics of IT (more so than now - as compliance hasn't really moved into this as yet), but looking at the vendors (Brocade, Cisco, EMC etc..) with each vendor being completely different, does anyone have any insight on what vendor product is looking to be the main one? (i.e. Network = Cisco, Virtualise = VMWare).

I wouldn't say it that it is becoming. I say it is. All off my clients in the past 2 years have been using this. From small clients to huge clients. All of them.

I wish I had more insight for you but I do not. I do not know the nitty gritty. I am in the Business Intelligence realm of IT (best career switch ever, used to program) since it is the most lucrative.

Requiem · 07-03-2009, 11:59 AM

Are you sure you're talking about SAN fabrics? The vendors are pretty far from proprietary in implementation into a cluster. It's either ISCSI or FC for the most part, every OS has initiators for both, and the filesystem used is nearly always completely abstract to the SAN device itself. That being said, many of the currently available cluster filesystems leave a lot to be desired. GFS/GFS2 for example, which is the prevailing/recommended solution for Linux, has a tiresome locking/fencing layer to it. Not only is it sort of a pita to set up and to add/remove cluster members, but to achieve the performance that most SAN devices can deliver in a task that can saturate the systems involved, many people need to set up an infiniband network JUST for the lock manager or that becomes the bottleneck.

Note that a basic difference between a SAN and a NAS is that a SAN is intended for use by many systems all accessing(and modifying) the same data.

Requiem · 07-03-2009, 12:16 PM

Oh, to get to the question in your post, if you're talking specifically about the systems surrounding a SAN device(or devices) on ultra large-scale deployments to ensure availability to every cluster member(hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands) - I'm not a real big expert on out-of-the-box solutions because I would never use them. First, the solution will always be extremely subjective based on all kinds of variables. Second, linux in particular has some extremely powerful constructs with which to build load-balancing and high-availability solutions. I'd be working mostly with some combination of IPVS and BGP(in the case of a country-wide cluster as a good example of where BGP could shine).

When it comes down to the actual devices themselves, I'll probably get slammed for this, but I really dig the Dell EqualLogic systems when iSCSI is feasible.

radyvix · 07-08-2009, 03:23 AM

funny bit of trivia (?), the emc connectrix line is just cisco or brocade rebadged.

07-01-2009, 02:15 PM	#1 (permalink)
Baerf Stupid Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Where dragons be. Posts: 96 +0 Internets	SAN Fabrics Not sure where this should go with regards the forums placement, so if not in the right place please move and accept my apologies. Anyone here have any experience in SAN fabrics? And more so the real nitty-gritty part of it? Just been on a Brocade course and it interested the hell out of me - never been a networking type of person, but i can see why people get into now. To be honest the course was a step above my skill-set (was advanced theory, when i should of been on the fundamentals) but i got a good 70% of it. I can see this becoming one of the core basics of IT (more so than now - as compliance hasn't really moved into this as yet), but looking at the vendors (Brocade, Cisco, EMC etc..) with each vendor being completely different, does anyone have any insight on what vendor product is looking to be the main one? (i.e. Network = Cisco, Virtualise = VMWare). Basically i want to start looking into specializing in one of the vendors, but don't want to specialize in a dead-duck.

07-01-2009, 04:05 PM	#2 (permalink)
Candiarie Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 978 +0 Internets	I've worked with it kind of minimally, from unpacking and racking to getting that shit in production. I was learning from a much much more experienced engineer though. I haven't had a problem moving from EMC and Comp at least. It seemed like it was a lot of just knowing their different names for things. We don't really get into it too much as a whole fabric here though (no multiple sites or anything like that). How are you planning on specializing in it? Usually people get into SAN storage via networking and from your post it doesn't sound like your current job directly deals with that. __________________

07-03-2009, 11:59 AM	#4 (permalink)
Requiem Site Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,259 +109 Internets	Are you sure you're talking about SAN fabrics? The vendors are pretty far from proprietary in implementation into a cluster. It's either ISCSI or FC for the most part, every OS has initiators for both, and the filesystem used is nearly always completely abstract to the SAN device itself. That being said, many of the currently available cluster filesystems leave a lot to be desired. GFS/GFS2 for example, which is the prevailing/recommended solution for Linux, has a tiresome locking/fencing layer to it. Not only is it sort of a pita to set up and to add/remove cluster members, but to achieve the performance that most SAN devices can deliver in a task that can saturate the systems involved, many people need to set up an infiniband network JUST for the lock manager or that becomes the bottleneck. Note that a basic difference between a SAN and a NAS is that a SAN is intended for use by many systems all accessing(and modifying) the same data. __________________ Requiem Alloria Mistweave Uberguilds.org, fohguild.org Site Administrator requiem@fohguild.org

07-03-2009, 12:16 PM	#5 (permalink)
Requiem Site Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,259 +109 Internets	Oh, to get to the question in your post, if you're talking specifically about the systems surrounding a SAN device(or devices) on ultra large-scale deployments to ensure availability to every cluster member(hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands) - I'm not a real big expert on out-of-the-box solutions because I would never use them. First, the solution will always be extremely subjective based on all kinds of variables. Second, linux in particular has some extremely powerful constructs with which to build load-balancing and high-availability solutions. I'd be working mostly with some combination of IPVS and BGP(in the case of a country-wide cluster as a good example of where BGP could shine). When it comes down to the actual devices themselves, I'll probably get slammed for this, but I really dig the Dell EqualLogic systems when iSCSI is feasible. __________________ Requiem Alloria Mistweave Uberguilds.org, fohguild.org Site Administrator requiem@fohguild.org

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07-08-2009, 03:23 AM	#6 (permalink)
radyvix Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 25 -2 Internets	funny bit of trivia (?), the emc connectrix line is just cisco or brocade rebadged.