Applying for Programming Jobs

[Chrisb3]

Just finished Univercity and I need to start applying for jobs. I've got about a week to apply to Rare (makers of Goldeneye and other games I haven't played) and haven't really looked for any other companies yet but I'm sure they will want applications soon.

As part of my applications I need a portfolio of my work to show off my programming skills. I'm looking for advice on what level of programming I need to put into this portfolio and what kinds of things I need to do.
I'm currently working on a program with many bouncing balls that have collision detection and physics, but it seems pretty basic to me.
I also have my dissertation which is a terrain editor. Everything is in C++. I can maybe get hold of some coursework with various things in them but I think they want self led work (so not coursework).

Since there seems to be alot of computery people here I thought it'd be a good place to ask. I have no idea what is expected of me and some good advice here could be the difference between applying now or waiting a few months while I learn to program better.

[Hachima]

With only a week, maybe you don't have a choice at this point. But as some general advice, if Rare is your dream company that you want to work for, don't apply to it first.

Experience with interviewing with other game companies will help you get an idea of what you should expect.

I'll throw out a few things to get you started. These are for software development in general.

You are also interviewing the company you will be working for. Here are some ideas to get you thinking
The Joel Test: 12 Steps to Better Code - Joel on Software


For some insight on the hiring process

Sorting Resumes - Joel on Software

Sites like this help get you thinking
Question & Answer

Google search pulled this up for an example
Jimb Esser's Portfolio

I'm sure you can google more

[Nehrak]

Originally Posted by Hachima

With only a week, maybe you don't have a choice at this point. But as some general advice, if Rare is your dream company that you want to work for, don't apply to it first.

The bolded part is absolutely vital advice. If you have any doubts about your ability to land a job at Rare, do not apply there first. The sad but unfortunate truth is that you need to have experience to show off, and from reading your post I got the sense you don't exactly have something already prepped and ready (by the way, I wouldn't consider your colliding ball simulation spectacular, either; I had to do that for a homework assignment in my sophomore year).

My personal suggestion is try to find something that could be construed as menial, in the programming field. At the same time, I'd strongly suggest trying to build some sort of demonstration (heck, I've had the thought of doing a "3d resume explorer" of sorts to go with the paper copy, to show off graphics ability and physics and whatnot). In other words, think of a project that sells you, then make it. It won't take a couple of months (longer, surely), but at the same time I'd be very surprised if you didn't learn something new from it, be it from research or just how you went from scratch to finish. The main thing they're going to be looking for is: can you finish what you start?

I did have one question: you said you had a terrain editor as your dissertation. So you've just finished your doctorate? That's probably a big point in your favor, and the terrain editor would be a huge sample to provide to a company; the ability to make in-house tools and other tools like map editors and whatnot gets big +internets, or so I'm told. If the school owns the rights to the code, I'd strongly suggest you try to get permission to use it for applications and whatnot. I'd be surprised if they said no. A doctoral thesis/project is something I'd consider a serious portfolio piece. It's your original work, and obviously you finished it, so use that.

[x1hundredregrets]

Originally Posted by Hachima

You are also interviewing the company you will be working for. Here are some ideas to get you thinking
The Joel Test: 12 Steps to Better Code - Joel on Software

From my personal expierence, any software house worth a damn will pass the Joel Test with flying colors except maybe #12. Thats weird stuff.

[Chrisb3]

I don't know the american words for degree titles, but I just have the basic three year degree with a decent grade. When I say dissertation I just mean 'big final year project', I just called it a dissertation because that's what some of my other friends where doing in different degrees but obviously computing is different with the essays.

Thanks for the replies, seems like I need to put more work into my final year project then? It took a 2D heightmap and let you edit it in a 3D openGL graphical representation of that heightmap. Unfortunatly it's all text commands and keyboad keys so not very user friendly. It was meant to be a 3D version of a game called populous which was on some old old consoles, but it didn't really get finished properly.

What I'd like is specifics of what kind of code things I need to show them because I'm not sure how well I've been taught this stuff and it would be nice to know what other people can do for context.

Haven't had much sucsess with google, my google skills fail me with this!

[Nehrak]

Originally Posted by Chrisb3

I don't know the american words for degree titles, but I just have the basic three year degree with a decent grade. When I say dissertation I just mean 'big final year project', I just called it a dissertation because that's what some of my other friends where doing in different degrees but obviously computing is different with the essays.

Thanks for the replies, seems like I need to put more work into my final year project then? It took a 2D heightmap and let you edit it in a 3D openGL graphical representation of that heightmap. Unfortunatly it's all text commands and keyboad keys so not very user friendly. It was meant to be a 3D version of a game called populous which was on some old old consoles, but it didn't really get finished properly.

What I'd like is specifics of what kind of code things I need to show them because I'm not sure how well I've been taught this stuff and it would be nice to know what other people can do for context.

Haven't had much sucsess with google, my google skills fail me with this!

Gotcha. Dissertation is what we use here in the USofA to generally mean "your paper/research for your PhD". Still, a project you did in your last year is still something of note, especially if it applies to what the company in particular is known for making.

[Hachima]

From the Rare page they say

Must be self-motivated, creative and skilled in C/C++, with intellectual horsepower and the ability to rapidly comprehend new technologies. Also vital is the passion to make successful games and commitment to go the extra mile to do so.

Another strong point for new grads is what you have done outside of class. What type of technologies have you learned on your own without being forced to do it.

Since they are looking for 360 development showing interest in XNA and learning that on your own would be a good example of outside the classroom learning, and the interest in learning the latest technologies. If your school has an MSDNAA subscription you can get a free creators club account too. Microsoft XNA Game Studio Contest has a free 12 month trial offer too ($100 value) Visual Studio Express and developing for the PC is completely free though if you don't have access to any of that stuff.

Even though you probably wouldn't use XNA, it's similar to C/C++ (using C#) and shows the ability to learn new gaming libraries.

I worked a little bit for a game company. A lot of the libraries we used were custom in house tools. I'm sure rare has the same. There is no way they will expect you to know their tools. They plan on you having to learn their tools/libraries. They want to see you have the ability to quickly learn their tools though. That's what I would try to focus on demonstrating to them.

[Chrisb3]

Wow those Joel links arn't fun to read

I'm going to have to buy a book on C asap because I spent the last year doing AI and Graphics and have so forgotten basic stuff I was taught the year before.

You guys have gotten me thinking the right way at last though!

[Hachima]

Something else that would be good is if you worked on an open source project on a game. I don't know what is out there though, and I'd be interested in one myself. But working on a larger scale project with other people that you can refer to is also something that can help you get a foot in the door too.

[x1hundredregrets]

I'm on the Beyond the Red Line team (Freescape 2 total conversion into the Battlestar Galactica universe). I know for a fact that it influenced my hiring process into my current company (Reactor Zero).

[Zippygoose]

Definitely agree with all of the advice given so far. One thing I would add is in your code submission, make sure that you are showing your potential employer that you can not only make an application that "bounces balls with collision" (for example), but that you know how to implement that solution in an architecturally-sound way, using standardized design patterns and all of the guiding principles of object oriented practices. Shit, I've looked at code I wrote senior year in college and it is atrocious! You should have anything you are going to submit reviewed by someone you respect in the field prior to handing it in.

Also, I can't recommend this book enough:

Amazon.com: Head First Design Patterns (Head First): Elisabeth Freeman, Eric Freeman, Bert Bates, Kathy Sierra: Books

Credit to Hachima for recommending it in one of the Uberworlds threads. It will be required reading for my new hires in the future

Edit: I've never actually seen "The Joel Test" before, but for a lot of the steps he's just describing a Waterfall development cycle along with a couple of things specific to how Microsoft builds software (mostly waterfall).

[Fog]

Make sure you're prepared to write code; as in, on a whiteboard or a piece of paper. I just interviewed with a small company and had to do this, so don't look like an idiot. (The bar for looking like an idiot is not very high, though; apparently I was the only guy they had interviewed in forever who actually produced a mostly bug-free quicksort function on the whiteboard.)

[Zippygoose]

Originally Posted by Fog

Make sure you're prepared to write code; as in, on a whiteboard or a piece of paper. I just interviewed with a small company and had to do this, so don't look like an idiot. (The bar for looking like an idiot is not very high, though; apparently I was the only guy they had interviewed in forever who actually produced a mostly bug-free quicksort function on the whiteboard.)

Hehe, I think my biggest bomb was the in-person for my current employer. One of my questions was: "Draw for me on the whiteboard how IIS6, not IIS5, but IIS6, interacts with ASP.NET".

Me: "Well...you've got this worker process, the aspnet_wp.exe!"
Them: "Are you sure that's what it's called in IIS6?"
Me: "Umm, pretty sure?"

lol. Got the job though

[Chrisb3]

Well abandoned my crappy physics demo, going to take my final year project and write it properly this time. Atrocious is a good word to decribe my code.

Going to use an object to store every point in my height map, rather than a couple of random arrays. Then I can make a game out of it which would make up for the lack of complicated things like level of detail and nice graphics.

Thanks for reccormending that book, I think a few good books would help me out enormously if anyone else has a few suggestions? I was looking for C++ related books today but all I found was C++ for dummies -_-

[x1hundredregrets]

Originally Posted by Chrisb3

Well abandoned my crappy physics demo, going to take my final year project and write it properly this time. Atrocious is a good word to decribe my code.

Going to use an object to store every point in my height map, rather than a couple of random arrays. Then I can make a game out of it which would make up for the lack of complicated things like level of detail and nice graphics.

Thanks for reccormending that book, I think a few good books would help me out enormously if anyone else has a few suggestions? I was looking for C++ related books today but all I found was C++ for dummies -_-

C++ FAQ LITE

Read this entire thing before your interview and you'll be good as gold. This is by far the defacto C++ bible. I have never known a programmer worth his own weight that had not at the very very least heard of this FAQ.


EDIT: C/C++/C# programmers anyway. I forgot theres other programming languages, lulz?