Webpage design and everthing else.

[Usha Starchild]

Does anyone have any links to any sites that have a good guide on how to run a website.

I want to build a site that will be somewhat like Made in China,serve Manufacturers, Suppliers, Exporters and Importers! but will be more specific to the line of work I am in. So the site will be all about searches, a bit of wikipedia style editing and digg stuff.

So could someone please give me some advice, I want to know everything from

- What type of hardware to run
- How hard building a site like that would be
- What kinds of costs are involved
- How to expand if the site blows up
- Backup advice etc...

I guess if anyone one has any links to some guides on how other big sites work, that would be a cool read too.

Thanks

[Usha Starchild]

Help anyone? What kind of programming would be involved? I need to hire some programmers here in China so I can oversee the project.

Something like Wowhead: Epic like your faction leader. but for real life stuff.

[Kuriin]

Javascript, C/C++, Computer Graphics (a given), XHTML, and CSS. Dunno if I'm missing anything.

Oh, and knowledge of knowing how to use flash is a smart idea. :P

[Zeste]

Why not find a website design company that can handle those details, and you just tell them what you want?

Trying to oversee and be the architect of a website when you have no idea what you're doing is a pretty big job.

I do this for a living, you'd be better off finding someone like me who has the programmers/designers already on the payroll, and I worry about the technical aspects. A site like that "made in china" could run anywhere from $8000-$25000 dollars depending on how technical and advanced your backend functionality is.

Not really sure what else to tell you. If you want to build a website yourself, and just hire the programmers to do what you need, that's going to be a monsterous task. The kinds of questions you have, I could literally write a 10 page reply to each one, and still have only scraped the surface.

[Grave]

Yeah, I do a bit of web development (nothing professional) and I can tell you right now Zeste is right; what you're describing is a VERY complex job and there's no way someone with no programming knowledge could just jump into it with some tutorial sites.

I would go outside the company and have a design firm do it for you, although you wouldn't be able to oversee it, you could still be in communication with them as to what you want specifically.

[Usha Starchild]

Im not against having a desing company do the site, but I will need full time staff to take care of it once its up and running. I want to hire 2-5 people to build it, I'm just looking for local talent as I am in China and want to be able to meet with them every few days.

I'm just curious as to what type of programming would be needed so I can find the right people. Zeste do you have MSN?

[niteflyx]

I used to work as a designer in a design firm that handled huge web application/sites like that, and seeing how much work that exists that you wouldn't even think about when using the site.

First off, design is something you need to be trained in if you're serious about a good website, the programming itself is rough, but also, the architecture of the site, site flow, and keeping the site up to date..

Best bet is to look into a design company to do this; they'll be able to design something, and get your approval, and fire out prototypes that meet your satisfaction. We're in a world where websites are more complicated than your simple angelfire sites, and you really need to know what you're doing

Hope this helps~

[niteflyx]

You'd need a designer/artist (could be two different people, or the same)
Programmers (back-end to do the structure and architecture)
Programmers (front-end, could be a programming savvy designer)

And could be done with several things, use .NET framework, .asp, Ruby on Rails, PHP/MySQL, some Javascript maybe, etc..

It'd be much easier to have a design firm to do it, then they hand it off to you, with the proper tools to manage it once it's live and then you can hand that off to one of YOUR programmers. Pulling in a few people and saying let's make this site would require management in this field and can be rough if you're not too familiar with building complex sites like this.

[Zeste]

Originally Posted by Usha Starchild

Im not against having a desing company do the site, but I will need full time staff to take care of it once its up and running. I want to hire 2-5 people to build it, I'm just looking for local talent as I am in China and want to be able to meet with them every few days.

I'm just curious as to what type of programming would be needed so I can find the right people. Zeste do you have MSN?

Yeah am on all major messengers.

I'm not trying to talk you out of it or anything, just trying to drop the facts on you so you can best proceed.

I presume you know what you want, as far as what you want the site to "do". I also presume you have a budget in the back of your head, and also a budget for operating costs for hiring people to manage the site what it is built.

Really, in a nutshell, here's what I'd say your best plan is:

- Meet with a company who can build a site like this. I am sure there is local talent. Meet with them and go over your project in depth. They can give you a cost estimate to build the whole thing WITH the features in mind that you want easy to use, automatic "admin" functions so you can administer the site yourself once it is built.

- Then, you can hire some savvy people who work for you administering the site, using the interfaces and admins that the company built. These people aren't hardcore programmers, but they run the "control panel" that you made when you built the site, so basically they are using online forms/wysiwyg editors to add/edit/delete products or database entries or whatever.

- Then, if you need more programming, fixes, additions or adjustments, you go back to the original company.


The problem with you just hiring a few designers and programmers to build it is that your missing a key component, the "general contractor"... to put it into housing terms: you are the home owner and want your awesome new house built, and right now, you want to just hire the subcontractors (framers, electricians, roofers) yourself. But, you don't really know how a house is built on a technical level, you just know what you want in the end.

That's where the General Contractor comes in. He knows how to take your vision, and then orchestrate with the subcontractors to get it done so it is technically and structurally sound.

Even if you want to hire your own programmer and such, you will also need to find a "general contractor" to oversee it, because there is an endless amount of technical hurdles and things you'd never ever think of, and it's their job to make sure it all gets done and done properly.

There's nothing worse than being knee-deep in a complex database driver site (which yours definitely is) and start running into problems that are not part of the "regular" set of problems.

If you want to PM me your "vision" for the site and a realistic budget, I can probably tell you what to look for and what type of programmers/designers/"supervisors" to look for.

It's "web 2.0" nowdays... a professional commercial websites should be no less complex and complete than if you were building a new commercial building or a new house. The days of just "slapping it together" are getting farther and farther behind.

[Warrik]

If I were to recommend a study track, I would suggest starting these books:


For understanding how to design using web standards, and the importance of doing so:

Designing with Web Standards by Jeffrey Zeldman - a must read for anyone doing web development/design.


Web Standards Solutions by Dan Cederholm - This book shows different Web standards approachs for common concepts.

BulletProof Web Design by Dan Cederholm - This is a casebook that studies various coding pitfalls and how to keep your markup/style/behavior seperated and intuitive.

For Javascript, there are two books I can highly recommend:


Dom Scripting by Jeremy Keith - This is THE book to get for getting your hands dirty when it comes to using the DOM. Learn the DOM. Love the DOM. If your going to do any sort of scripting/coding, you will thank yourself for learning the DOM. I can't recommend this book highly enough.

javascript: the Definitive Guide by David Flanigan - From soup to nuts, this covers the gamut and will help establish a good foundation.

Like others above me stated, its a long road your going down if you truly want to delve into web design/web development. I would try and get a very fim understanding of Javascript to make the transition to AJAX easier. If you were to learn another scripting leanguage, VB Script isnt a bad choice, as its a bit easier.

I saw you mention C# and C++...thats serious coding, and not as forgiving as scripting languages and require alot of hard work to learn.

If your a complete novice, you can do alot of learning now by reading and doing personal projects, but it can be hard if you do not work in an environment where you can truly develop your skills by applying what your learning to your daily workflow.

[Zeste]

Originally Posted by Warrik

If I were to recommend a study track, I would suggest starting these books:


For understanding how to design using web standards, and the importance of doing so:

Designing with Web Standards by Jeffrey Zeldman - a must read for anyone doing web development/design.


Web Standards Solutions by Dan Cederholm - This book shows different Web standards approachs for common concepts.

BulletProof Web Design by Dan Cederholm - This is a casebook that studies various coding pitfalls and how to keep your markup/style/behavior seperated and intuitive.

For Javascript, there are two books I can highly recommend:


Dom Scripting by Jeremy Keith - This is THE book to get for getting your hands dirty when it comes to using the DOM. Learn the DOM. Love the DOM. If your going to do any sort of scripting/coding, you will thank yourself for learning the DOM. I can't recommend this book highly enough.

javascript: the Definitive Guide by David Flanigan - From soup to nuts, this covers the gamut and will help establish a good foundation.

Like others above me stated, its a long road your going down if you truly want to delve into web design/web development. I would try and get a very fim understanding of Javascript to make the transition to AJAX easier. If you were to learn another scripting leanguage, VB Script isnt a bad choice, as its a bit easier.

I saw you mention C# and C++...thats serious coding, and not as forgiving as scripting languages and require alot of hard work to learn.

If your a complete novice, you can do alot of learning now by reading and doing personal projects, but it can be hard if you do not work in an environment where you can truly develop your skills by applying what your learning to your daily workflow.

This is good advice, but I thought he wanted to know who to hire and what to tell them, not actually program himself.

[Usha Starchild]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I know its a big project, I actually have 3 big projects I want to get onto this year. Thats the reason I was hoping to do it in house and hire people.

I might take the route of contacting a design firm and seeing what they can do for me. Zeste is right I dont want to throw a website together, I want a fast, reliable and very efficent site to use.

I actually like how wowhead.com works. Does anyone know what they are using? They have a massive database and its runs sweet. Not to mention they have retarded amounts of traffic.

Just wait til I tell you my second project in a few months. Then you will laugh at me and tell me its hard.

[Ham n Cheese]

Assuming you can train yourself to maintain the site after it's built and just add things that you need, what does a site with that much detail (well more like 1/5th, tons of shit on that link) typically cost someone anyway?

[Zeste]

Originally Posted by Ham n Cheese

Assuming you can train yourself to maintain the site after it's built and just add things that you need, what does a site with that much detail (well more like 1/5th, tons of shit on that link) typically cost someone anyway?

Depends. A site like thottbot or wowhead is more than likely built by enthusiast programmers/gamers as a hobby. Most sites like that are, since there is not a huge opportunity for revenue aside from ads, which haven't been what they used to be.

If someone were to come to me and say "I want a site exactly like Thottbot. I don't know anything about programming or web site design, but I want you to build it so I can maintain it easily from control panels and such." I'd put it probably over 25,000 just for the construction, not counting the EXTREME traffic a site like thottbot gets monthly. Plus the salary of someone to maintain it.

Sites like that almost HAVE to be hobbyist sites.

[Ham n Cheese]

JFC I'm in the wrong profession