MS/Cisco/Comtia certs

[Zippygoose]

Originally Posted by eyeoftheovermind

Zippygoose, I do believe that my idea of consulting would be what you are thinking of as contract work. I have at least some work in line though already with firms in the DC area so I'm not incredibly worried.

Awesome

You are certainly on the right track if you are getting this real world experience while you're still in school. That means you'll have some firepower on your resume right when you graduate.

Although I can't really comment a lot on your specifics since my experience is all on the software side of things, I will say that I have yet to meet someone who actually paid for the Microsoft certs. My current company and the company I worked at before both covered all of the costs for MS certs. This could just be because I work in Seattle though, who knows

[Vehn]

how long do security clearances last? I was in AFROTC and got a clearance, but quit last July. Don't know how long it lasts though :/

[TKarrde]

Fuck CompTIA
Fuck A+/N+
Fuck MCP



Go to a local community college, take cisco classes there. The actual classes will probably suck dick, and you'll do all of your learning on your own time, but it's much cheaper to just suffer through them for the lab access than it is to buy your own lab equipment.

Next, grab your Security+. CISSP is NOT an option until you have 5~ years of direct IT security experience. And they WILL audit you. Something like 70% of the people who take the test get audited. If they find out you lied about experience, you get your CISSP revoked, and banned from that and any of their other programs.

They have a lower level cert, but it's still much the same thing, except it only takes 2 or 3 years.

Next, check out the MCSA/MCSE program. Some of the portions are easy. Some are hard. With some studying, though, you should be able to tackle them. You don't need a lab, really, since you can just use VMWare and recreate everything yourself.

Security is a great industry. I'd suggest getting your CCNA, Security+, MCSE w/ the Security bit, and start working on your experience. Once you have enough, get your CISSP.

At this point, you're pretty much set. If you're after some more knowledge, versatility, etc, go for your CCSP. It'll be a breeze after learning everything else.

Security clearances are great, if you can get them - but if you didn't get one from military service, it'll be tough to land one. The best way would be to work for a consulting company that gets some military/government contracts. If you prove yourself to be an asset while doing the non clearance work, they will likely sponsor you for TS later on.

[chaos]

Originally Posted by Vehn

how long do security clearances last? I was in AFROTC and got a clearance, but quit last July. Don't know how long it lasts though :/

Clearances last 5 years before the reinvestigation period comes up. They are only valid as long as they are being used, for instance when you left AFROTC and if you had a clearance there, you should have been debriefed and your clearance status put in inactive. You have the clearance, it's a simple admin thing they have to do to reactivate it, but if at the reinvestigation period you are not actively using your clearance, it expires and you have to redo the entire process (i think, i am not sure exactly what happens when it expires).

[chaos]

Originally Posted by TKarrde

Fuck CompTIA
Fuck A+/N+
Fuck MCP



Go to a local community college, take cisco classes there. The actual classes will probably suck dick, and you'll do all of your learning on your own time, but it's much cheaper to just suffer through them for the lab access than it is to buy your own lab equipment.

Next, grab your Security+. CISSP is NOT an option until you have 5~ years of direct IT security experience. And they WILL audit you. Something like 70% of the people who take the test get audited. If they find out you lied about experience, you get your CISSP revoked, and banned from that and any of their other programs.

They have a lower level cert, but it's still much the same thing, except it only takes 2 or 3 years.

Next, check out the MCSA/MCSE program. Some of the portions are easy. Some are hard. With some studying, though, you should be able to tackle them. You don't need a lab, really, since you can just use VMWare and recreate everything yourself.

Security is a great industry. I'd suggest getting your CCNA, Security+, MCSE w/ the Security bit, and start working on your experience. Once you have enough, get your CISSP.

At this point, you're pretty much set. If you're after some more knowledge, versatility, etc, go for your CCSP. It'll be a breeze after learning everything else.

Security clearances are great, if you can get them - but if you didn't get one from military service, it'll be tough to land one. The best way would be to work for a consulting company that gets some military/government contracts. If you prove yourself to be an asset while doing the non clearance work, they will likely sponsor you for TS later on.

Concerning the CISSP, I have always wondered exactly what counts as security experience. i mean, everyone in IT works security in some form. From help desk to installers shit even cable installers work with security. Technically I have 7+ years expereince with security but I'm not sure how they will see that.

[forge]

Personally when I look at someones resume experience is the number one thing I go for. That's really what means the most to me, and next its asking them fucked up questions in a interview to see how much is bs and how much they actually know. Others might disagree but you said you still had 4-6? years of college to go. First right out of the door its unlikely that any of the cert you get will be valid by the time you are done. So this leaves it to the point of getting them during college to actually do something. Next as its been said unless you're married to the ceo's daughter I doubt you'll get any type of work as a contractor. People get contractors to fix issues that their employees can't figure out. This means that generally any shit you get will actually be pretty difficult. Companies generally take on contractors at a big corp. They do this to know their in good hands which also doesn't help you being joe just one man. If you are looking to build a decent resume I'd do what has already been said. Grab the ccna to start go into to a isp etc and try and get some noc time. The government is pretty retarded in nature and anything you put on a resume will get you more money. This goes with all the certs as well however if you don't need a job in the next 3 years I wouldn't bother.

Shit changes in this industry faster than just about any other. If people had some cert from ages ago I wouldn't even bother to think twice about it. I'm not really sure who gave you these ideas to get all these certs because imo their pretty useless. The only time I would try and build on certs is if I was looking to make a job change and be like WOW SPOOGE LOOK AT ME I"M SUPER SMART. This can also be a blessing or a boon for you depending on what sector you're looking in. I know of people who will throw a resume in the trash if they list some of the certs you did just because everyone and their brother can get one. Most of the time what I see in the IT industry is that getting a job is 50% luck and 50% who you know. There are 20k other mofos who know the same thing you do. Then there are probably a additional 20k mofos who say they know what you know but don't.

[TKarrde]

Originally Posted by chaos

Concerning the CISSP, I have always wondered exactly what counts as security experience. i mean, everyone in IT works security in some form. From help desk to installers shit even cable installers work with security. Technically I have 7+ years expereince with security but I'm not sure how they will see that.

Previously, that probably would have been fine. Over the past couple of years, though, they've been really tightening down on what is considered experience.

You now also have to be sponsored by someone with a CISSP to receive it, so your potential sponsor should be able to say "Yeah, those count", or "No, they don't"

[Kuriin]

Just a quick question concerning Security -- if my stepfather was in the Navy for 21 years and was an O4/O5, would he be able to recommend me for security clearance?

Sorry for bumping into this conversation, just trying to understand this for future reference.

Also, do certificates lasts forever or do they have to be renewed every so years?

[TKarrde]

Originally Posted by Kuriin

Just a quick question concerning Security -- if my stepfather was in the Navy for 21 years and was an O4/O5, would he be able to recommend me for security clearance?

Sorry for bumping into this conversation, just trying to understand this for future reference.

Also, do certificates lasts forever or do they have to be renewed every so years?

No. A company has to sponsor you for clearance. It also requires thousands of dollars in fees, depending on what level of clearance you're going for, etc.

Some last forever. Some have to be renewed every handful of years.

[Saidin]

Would you guys say getting a couple of certifications would help one get into a decent college ?I only have a 3.0 atm, but the majority of my classes next year will be AP, and I am concerned that I will not have that extra boost needed to get into a decent one. The certs I am looking at getting are the A+/Net +... I have excelled in any class that has required any sort of memorization, so I hear those are gonna be a walk in the park.
I am in a course now for A+, and it seems pretty easy ( but then again it is a Senior cut class at my school ). While I do want the certs for college, I also have an interest in the field ( networking mostly ) and hopefully will work for the military after college in some sort of technical field . Hopefully not programming though, god I hated the two years of Java. I am a junior btw.

[Mikeboyii]

50pence:
I can't comment on the A+ side of the house, but I'm a network security guy so I can comment on that area a little. As someone mentioned earlier experience will count for more than anything, but sparing that you have a few options. If you're going for the quick buck CCVP/CCIE:Voice is the way to go; most UC guys in major markets pull down a fantastic salary with only a year or so of experience, and it seems to cap off at around 10 years. If you're looking for the long haul CCIE:R&S/CCIE:Security/CISSP is the way to go, you'll start lower on the pay scale, but as you accrue experience you see an extremely large jump after about 5 years, and it seems to just continue. Good security folks are very hard to find, and even harder to keep.

I'm currently sitting on my cissp, ccie R&S and security, I didn't want the ccies but to meet partner classification levels for cisco, you have to have x number of CCIEs on staff; so they're great for a resume to get a first job, but after that, it's a bit iffy. I personally put very little stock in CCIEs anymore; if you get it oversees the test is a HELL of a lot easier, and there are quite a few cases of people cheating.

[Candiarie]

Saidin - I've never heard of a college caring about what certifications you have. It wouldn't hurt, but I've never seen anyone take A+ or Net+ seriously. Ever (albeit Net+ a little bit more seriously than A+). Why do you want the certs for college? I honestly can't think of a reason other than to be on the IT staff at the school they might be required, but most on-campus IT jobs are help desk jobs that are boring and underpaid even for help desk jobs.

For people wondering about the MCSE certs by the way, if you register and take one in the next few months (I think until January?) you can re-take it for free, so you have that going for you. You might already have to had taken one, though.

[TKarrde]

Originally Posted by Mikeboyii

50pence:
I can't comment on the A+ side of the house, but I'm a network security guy so I can comment on that area a little. As someone mentioned earlier experience will count for more than anything, but sparing that you have a few options. If you're going for the quick buck CCVP/CCIE:Voice is the way to go; most UC guys in major markets pull down a fantastic salary with only a year or so of experience, and it seems to cap off at around 10 years. If you're looking for the long haul CCIE:R&S/CCIE:Security/CISSP is the way to go, you'll start lower on the pay scale, but as you accrue experience you see an extremely large jump after about 5 years, and it seems to just continue. Good security folks are very hard to find, and even harder to keep.

I'm currently sitting on my cissp, ccie R&S and security, I didn't want the ccies but to meet partner classification levels for cisco, you have to have x number of CCIEs on staff; so they're great for a resume to get a first job, but after that, it's a bit iffy. I personally put very little stock in CCIEs anymore; if you get it oversees the test is a HELL of a lot easier, and there are quite a few cases of people cheating.

VoIP is mad monies. But the CCIE Voice test is hardest lab, with Service Provider being the easiest. The CCVP is a pretty intense cert in comparison to the CCNP as well, so it's definitely one of the tougher paths to travel - but also one of the most rewarding.

And yeah, the labs in foreign countries aren't as airtight as they are in the US, but most companies aren't afraid to go "Hey, well, this guy took his test in the US, so he's most likely legit".

[Mikeboyii]

Well I'll throw this out there, for everything other than the CCIE practicals, you can find ALL of the questions for every exam online. CCSP/NP/VP, all questions with associated answers; check chinese websites.

If you're really just going for certs as opposed to knowledge... there are shortcuts.

[Maio]

Originally Posted by Candiarie

albeit Net+ a little bit more seriously than A+

I wouldn't say that with the new A+ exams, at least not with the IT Technician elective. A+ Essentials is meh; A+ IT Technician is "not-so-meh". Network+ is pure crap, I have no idea why I even bothered studying for it.