Science and Drugs forum

[Millie]

Originally Posted by Menoz

The most fucked up I've ever been was on Salvia. Smoked about .2 grams of a 20x extract through a bong with a butane lighter. I've never been able to put what I saw into words, much less write a long story. My friends tell me that I was walking into walls and tables and kept mumbling "It's the combustaburgers!" over and over.

If you've never gotten any effects from salvia, then something's wrong. It's not a placebo.

edit: I will say that a universal effect of the drug at high dosages is a feeling of oneness with your surroundings and the universe. And this feeling is generally not a good thing as most people feel trapped. Also, ego-loss is never fun.

I dunno. It's entirely possible something could be wrong with me. On a semi-related note, I should mention that I am 100% immune to the effects of Valium (learned this the hard way in a recent surgery), and coke does nothing for me at all. Also, the one and only time I tried ecstasy (back in college) I felt basically no effects. Time slowed down a tiny bit, but that was all.

Weed tends to make me very giggly and (I hear) annoying, so that seems to fall within the normal range of experience. But other than that, my experiments with drugs have led to disappointment.

[Menoz]

Originally Posted by tikkus

I've been debating doing it for a couple of months now. The thing that deters me is that I've never heard a pleasurable experience come out of it. They've always been apocalyptic wake-up calls or something similar. Has anyone ever actually had a great experience on it before?

I will say that while I will never do the drug again, I don't regret doing it. I experienced things that cannot be experienced otherwise, and I feel that I am at least better educated because of it. It seems to hint at what human minds are incapable or unwilling to perceive about the world around us.

To describe the salvia trip: If your brain normally hums along at a pleasant pace, salvia makes it scream bloody hell and gouge it's own eyes out. It's far more intense then you could imagine, and very very few actually like the effects. When the guy at the headshop told me it was like doing 10 buttons of peyote, he wasn't lying.

edit: grammer police

[Screamfeeder]

Originally Posted by Menoz

To describe the salvia trip: If your brain normally hums along at a pleasant pace, salvia makes it scream bloody hell and gouge it's own eyes out. It's far more intense then you could imagine, and very very few actually like the effects. When the guy at the headshop told me it was like doing 10 buttons of peyote, he wasn't lying.

Not trying to be a dick here but I do not think you did Salvia divinorum.

I have used Salvia divinorum close to 100 times in almost every manner possible (Smoking, chewing, tea, paste).

I have also used Peyote over 20 times in both traditional settings (amongst Navajo in New Mexico) and recreational settings (just hanging out).

My longest salvia experience was for just over 1 hour (the peak was less than 10 minutes) and that was after making a concentrated paste of over 100 leaves (about 300 grams) of salvia extract(about 5 grams). This was smoked, stirred in a tea AND rubbed over the scalp at once.

My longest peyote trip on the other hand was over 24 hours (peak lasted over 2 hours solid) and that was after consuming about 4 buttons (about 20 grams).

The salvia trip gave effects of oneness with living things and a sense of perpetual motion on all 3 axis. Not once did my brain "fry" (like it has on acid) or did I feel any sense of malevolence whatsoever (gouging eyes out).

The peyote on the other hand (which is really just mescaline) forced me into a psychotic state at least 3 different times and thankfully I was more or less alone in the woods or I might have ended up doing something to someone. (har har someone can insert a joke here)

There have been people that claimed to take over 500 grams of in a short period of time and then going "berserk" but not once have I seen this or heard of anyone actually seeing this. Plus, even drinking that much would just make you sick.

In short, if salvia (or something someone told you was salvia) made your brain scream, then you either have something wrong with your brain, or were lied too(much more likely).

[Menoz]

Neither of my analogies were meant to be taken literally as I was merely trying to convey the experience of the salvia trip to the lay person or to someone who is not familiar with the harder hallucinogens.

My trip was full of malevolence and sent me into a state of semi-shock that lasted for a few hours after the trip. During this time I questioned reality and wondered if I'd be able to understand the world as I had before the trip. During the late come down of the trip I had a rather large headache, similar to headaches that I experience when I smoke copious amounts of marijuana but much more intense/painful. In me, this is characterized by a burning sensation in the cerebellum/optical lobe area.

I'm not trying to dispute your experiences as I am sure that you are not lying. I just ask that you accept mine. Different people do different things when they have taken drugs, and many people I have talked to have had experiences similar to mine.

[brekk]

Menoz do you have any previous experience with pschyadelics?

I don't doubt your description, but some of it matches well with someone without previous experience with psychs, or was just not expecting the effects.

Obviously you can't be ready completely going into a psychadelic experience, but the brain does adjust afterwards so that it is less jostled by future breaks from reality.

Personally be it, Salvia, Shrooms, LSD, DXM, Benadryl, or Dramamine. I have never regretted any of my psychadelic experiences.

By far my best experience involved Shrooms that I had grown while playing Planetside and listening to DSOTM. I was on my cloaked character inside a base that was in heavy combat. I just stood on a roof cloaked and watched the chaos around me while listening to Pink Floyd and tripping. The sheer chaos of war was both the most beautiful thing I had ever seen, and at the same time I had a sort of epiphany about the human condition.

My best experience with Salvia involved complete seperation of vision, and my physical awareness. To explain it, turn your head sideways and look at something, eventhough your eyes see it sideways you brain comprehends that your head is on its side and compensates so the object still looks vertical. When I was on my trip right after I inhaled I leaned my head forwards onto my knees facing off to one side. I was looking onto a deck with a chair and everything was on its side, but I had no reference of what was vertical. That whole trip made me realize how relative everything is and that eventhough we live in a world of supposed absolutes everything is just perception.

I love drugs.
Edit: I do not support the use of coke, opiates, or meth. I only support the use of Weed (cause its harmless fun) and psychadelics because they can be truly life changing experiences, which for the most part are not dangerous/risky.

[woot!]

Originally Posted by Millie

I dunno. It's entirely possible something could be wrong with me.

I'd still encourage you to give it another try doing it using "the proper method", because the way you burn the Salvia is the most important thing. Bong + blowtorch butane lighter , and keep the flame on the leaves/powder all the time while you inhale. You might also want to try some 10x or 15x extract rather than regular leaves or 5x.
When I tried it with a regular lighter, all I got was heavy sweating.
When I used a "blowtorch" lighter, I remember inhaling and thinking "I have to try to hold it to get the strongest effect possible", but I don't know/remember ever exhaling or putting the bong back on the table (of course I did exhale, but I remember "not remembering" this), that is to tell you how fast it started. It is quite difficult to express the experience with words, I remember the table in front of me seemed to be growing very slowly and kind of float, and I could "feel" patterns in things around me, but also in thoughts.
I was also thinking that I had a complete and perfect understanding of the sentence "to open the gates of perception", that I was acctualy understanding the "essence" and true meaning of those words, all that with a very strong (not to say extreme) feeling of empathy for what the sentence meant. At the same time, I felt kind of sad because I "knew" that the people around me could not understand that, because they were not on a superior level of consciousness like I knew I was (I should say that I was "aware of beeing conscious of this fact"). Things seemed very clear and simple to me, but at the same time, I felt difficult to follow a thought for very long, and I was completely unable to understand what people were saying around me, it was all sounding like mumbles.
All this might not be entiery linked to the salvia only, because we had smoked marijuana through the evening, but the "trip" was fairly intense for something like 10 minutes (from what I was told ; not realy sure on how long it acctualy lasted, my perception of time was gone at the time)

[guanna]

anyone tried jimpson weed? i tripped for 3 days so bad i literally lost all sense of realty the whole time. Everythin was to the extreme, and it was like i was living the happiest, saddest, angriest, and whatever else times all over again. For example, at one point I was fishing with my grandfather, I think I was about 6 or 7 years old. I was reexperiencing it as if it were happening again. I was actually there in my head. I didnt see the room I was in, I only saw the pond. My friends say I was talking to myself as if i were speaking to someone and I was a child.

the apache indians used it for a coming of age cerimony. take it and wander off for 3 or 4 days. if you come back then you are a man. if not, well youre lost untill you die. There si a very real chance of never coming back from a full on jimpson trip, a very real chance of death as well. There is no way that you can do jimpson and ever be the same afterward.

[guanna]

btw its jimson, search for Datura stramonium

[brekk]

***DO NOT DO DATURA***

It is not a psychadelic, the active ingredient is Atropine. (The stuff direct injected into people to cutoff the effects of Nerve Gas) The experiences caused by it are a Toxic Delirium, basically poisoning. It is very dangerous and many people have died from it. As Guanna said its a multiple day delirium. NOT hallucinations, you lose all sense of reality, and no ability to differentiate between what is real, and what is in your head. It can also cause long term damage to your vision.

***DO NOT DO DATURA***

sorry to go so overboard, but i know teens read this board, and if they figure out that Datura (jimson weed) is legal like Salvia they might think its another cool drug to try. Don't assume its legal because its safe, its legal because there is zero chance for abuse, and noone would willingly recomend the experience of being on it.

[guanna]

I would certainly never do it again. Once was plenty for the rest of my life. It is more of an experience than a high. From what I have read on Erowids, I aparently overdosed or something. My experience was much more intense than the experiences of others I have read on that site.

Also, the preperation methods I used were far different than what I read there. We made a tea by boiling the roots for 4 hours continually adding water, then we strained the mush through an undershirt and drink the foul elixer of insanity. Three days later I was no longer insane, but my vision was blurry for 32 more days afterward. My pupils were dialated like I was frying for almost 2 weeks straight.

It's funny, this stuff grows rampantly on the roadsides all over SE AZ. I went to work on a client's computer after my last post. I probably saw no less than 40-50 plants within 15 miles.

[Millie]

Originally Posted by guanna

It's funny, this stuff grows rampantly on the roadsides all over SE AZ. I went to work on a client's computer after my last post. I probably saw no less than 40-50 plants within 15 miles.

When I was little, my neighbor's extremely annoying dog got into a patch of jimson weed, ate it, and died shortly thereafter. That was the first time I'd ever heard of the stuff.

My theory is that anything too strong for a dog to handle is something I'm not putting in me.

[dak]

Bad thing about Datura is there is a very fine line between minimal dose and dramatic overdose.

[Goldenrod]

Originally Posted by Millie

I dunno. It's entirely possible something could be wrong with me. On a semi-related note, I should mention that I am 100% immune to the effects of Valium (learned this the hard way in a recent surgery), and coke does nothing for me at all. Also, the one and only time I tried ecstasy (back in college) I felt basically no effects. Time slowed down a tiny bit, but that was all.

Weed tends to make me very giggly and (I hear) annoying, so that seems to fall within the normal range of experience. But other than that, my experiments with drugs have led to disappointment.

bunk drugs. seriously, it's very easy to cut something like cocaine to reduce it's purity/increase profits and although i've never tried it, the same holds true with ecstacy. A lot of it is just poor quality. First couple of times I did coke I wondered what all the fuss was about and how people could end up addicted to it. Then, one day me and my friend decided to get it from another guy. He charged us 50 dollars for .8 grams of it. At first we told him it was a ripoff but he said it would be the best stuff we ever did. When he handed us the baggy, the coke was in one giant rock. Needless to say I finally understood why this was the biggest drug of the 70s and haven't used it since as i realized i would end up hopelessly addicted, lol.

[Millie]

Originally Posted by Goldenrod

bunk drugs. seriously, it's very easy to cut something like cocaine to reduce it's purity/increase profits and although i've never tried it, the same holds true with ecstacy. A lot of it is just poor quality. First couple of times I did coke I wondered what all the fuss was about and how people could end up addicted to it. Then, one day me and my friend decided to get it from another guy. He charged us 50 dollars for .8 grams of it. At first we told him it was a ripoff but he said it would be the best stuff we ever did. When he handed us the baggy, the coke was in one giant rock. Needless to say I finally understood why this was the biggest drug of the 70s and haven't used it since as i realized i would end up hopelessly addicted, lol.

I doubt the medical-grade Valium injected on two separate occasions directly into my left arm by a trained surgeon was bunk. So at the very least, there's something unusual about being unaffected by that.

As for the coke, I've done coke probably three or four times and from multiple sources. It's entirely possible I was getting a bad stash each time, but it's equally likely that coke just doesn't work with my brain chemistry (ADD? Not sure).

The ecstasy was very likely impure/diluted/whatever, because I should have felt something more than just a general sense of mild relaxation.

[brekk]

it is possible that you are unaffected by all those drugs, as all of them cause effects through the Serotonin system.

its also possible that salvia doesnt effect you. some people are just not effected by it.