Science and Drugs forum

[Azrayne]

Originally Posted by Salshun

As for the 2C-'s, I've never done anything else, but I've heard from numerous people that 2C-E can be a lot more intense and a heavier body load. Now I've never done LSD, so I can't really speak on it, but I really don't think it would interest me. 2C-B I like because of the body euphoria, the psychedelic aspects are kind of just an added side bonus, plus they're not really anything heavy, like I said, just the colors and shapes shit. One interesting little bit of info on LSD is that in my opinion, it's the only real "slam dunk" in the history of the drug war. 2 guys got busted that were pumping out 95% of the shit in the United States, and they got busted. You can read about the main guy here:

Honestly, you're not missing much, though I guess LSD would probably be worth trying once just for the sake of it, if you're up for such a long term commitment (long term drug wise).

That's an insane amount of LSD they were producing. I was going to go into a tangent about the ridiculous sentencing they were given, but I won't.

William Leonard Pickard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for Ketamine, I've never tried it. I do know it's one of the few psychedelics that you can become addicted to and I've also heard dosage can sometimes be difficult to gauge, which over dosing very easy to do.

Yeah, I find it interesting that it's addictive actually, since usually that's the domain of stims/depressants/opiates. Doseage I wouldn't be so worried about, thats the fun thing about drugs you can snort, it's easy to start slow and top up and to measure out doses fairly precisely. I'd want to avoid overdosing, since although it's not fatal, I've seen people K-hole at clubs before, and it's not a pretty sight.

My favorites have always been amphetamines, which the BIG exception of meth. I've done it once and never again.

That's odd actually, that amphetamine doesn't give you a comedown, but meth does. Did you use a higher dose, or a different method of ingestion?

I find meth comedown usually only occures if you get completely loaded, or stretch the high out too long. I can snort 30mg or so and get nice and buzzed for a couple hours and just slide down easily, but smoking a couple points on a night out or keeping myself awake 2 or 3 days guarantees a shitty day or two afterwards. More or less to the point where it's not worth it.

Nonetheless, the drug does take a hell of a lot out of you with extended/regular use, and it also has the fun side effect of being incredibly addictive. I always felt kind of cheated with meth, it's much less fun than MDMA, but so much more addictive. Of course once you remind yourself that the craving is just your brain begging for a dopamine hit and not you actually wanting the experience of the drug, it's easier to handle.

I don't like any drugs where the days following taking it I regret it and have to recover. Even X I gave up because of the penchant for a really shitty recovery period.

Yup. A bad MDMA comedown is one of the worst things you can ever experience. But you can usually avoid it with moderation. As long as you don't take it more than once every 6 - 8 weeks, and don't redose once it wears off, you should usually only get a momentary discomfort when coming down. As long as you take these precautions, I think the amazing high is worth the temporary discomfort of the comedown.

In that same line of thinking, I was never a Xanax/Soma fan, because frankly anything that makes me tired I really don't view as recreational. Hell I know people that take Temazepam and Ambien and a recreational drug. When I ask them how a sleeping pill is recreational, they tell me that "Oh you have to fight the urge to sleep". How is sleep deprivation fun? Pretty much any of the Benzo line of drugs. I just honestly don't get it.

Yeah I really don't get that either, but I enjoy my sleep too much to take sleeping pills then purposely deprive myself of it. I'd just crash the fuck out.

That said, I do like valium as a way to ease the comedown after a night partying on meth/MDMA. Instead of the long, drawn out crash with 'omg I feel terrible and want to sleep but my mind is racing', you just get home, pop the pill, and 15 minutes later you're fast asleep.

Also, weed, never liked it. Some people get really energetic and hyper on it, and I really envy them, because I just lay in bed staring at the ceiling trying to get the energy to even piss, let alone enjoy it with other high people in a social setting.

Weed is kind of like alcohol for me. I could live without it, I enjoy the effects at low doses, but I always regret going too far with it. A single cone to get me a little relaxed is always fun, but I really don't enjoy the sensation of high doses of weed, it just gives me the same 'confused' feeling I get with acid, an uncomfortable 'heavy' feeling, and makes me very withdrawn and awkward. Kind of like a weaker version of everything I dislike about LSD.

In terms of my favorite drugs, I would have to say coke or the opiate line (Oxy, hydro, etc). If you think about it, they make you full of energy, and in a fantastic mood, and for me that's the be all, end all point of drugs.

I've never tried either, actually. I'd like to try opiates just so I know how they feel, but mostly I'm a party drug person, so I'm never really exposed to it. Coke in Australia is stupidly expensive and, allegedly, very poor quality, so I don't really see the point.

Does Oxy give you a comedown or any sort of negative backlash when it wears off, as with stims?

[Salshun]

Well EVERY drug has a comedown. Their has to be a transitional period between being high and it wearing off, it's just the extent to which it sucks. Stimulants to me yes, do have a comedown, meth is just the worse. The ones I prefer, like adderall, ritalin, coke, etc., don't really have it to bad. Coke is awesome because if you know how to dose it, you can have 30 minutes of fun or 6 hours.

For a serious bender I'll usually stay up all night on them, then they're wear off in the morning, sometime before noon, but I'll still be too awake to sleep until that night, so like 2 days awake. I may also feel a little off and have that "sucked dry stomach" feeling and feel dirty because I usually smoke a lot and sweat more than usual. I've only done meth maybe 3 times and I never felt any addiction setting in. Never really had ANY addiction with a drug with the exception of Oxy, and even then it was just because I wanted the withdrawal feelings to go away, not so much "I want more". That's how it is with Coke and X, too. I'm not freaking out because I'm sobering up, it would just be cool to have some more, you know? Because you were enjoying how it was making you feel. A little X tip for you is to get this over the counter supplement called 5-HTP, a serotonin precursor. It basically increases serotonin production, but it doesn't release it to your body so you don't feel better, it's just that when you do take X, you'll release more serotonin. A lot of X users will take it daily for like 2 weeks before they drop to make the high better, then the days following they drop 2 a day to get their serotonin right again, thereby reducing the depression.

5-Hydroxytryptophan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oxy has such a gentle comedown it's not even funny. When it wears off you'll just feel like laying down, you'll be SUPER relaxed, bed is really comfortable, and you'll just fall asleep. You will sleep crazy, too. Sober, I'm a very deep but quick sleeper, average about 4-6 hours a night. The night after Oxy it's usually 9-11 hours.

[Azrayne]

For a serious bender I'll usually stay up all night on them, then they're wear off in the morning, sometime before noon, but I'll still be too awake to sleep until that night, so like 2 days awake. I may also feel a little off and have that "sucked dry stomach" feeling and feel dirty because I usually smoke a lot and sweat more than usual. I've only done meth maybe 3 times and I never felt any addiction setting in.

That sounds like me. Usually I'll start partying friday or saturday night, keep going till sunrise, come down in the morning at recovery, then head home and bum around till I pass out some time the next afternoon/night. On the rare occasion I go out two nights in a row, I usually stop dosing and try and recover during the day between, it's rare for me to go on a 2+ day bender, I find the crash afterwards just isn't worth it.

Meth addiction is something that creeps up on you. It's definately not 'one hit and you're hooked' like they say. It's once you start using fairly frequantly that you begin to have issues. The problem is you try it once, don't feel any addiction, then keep using because it's so fun/conveniant. By the time you realise you have a problem, the brain has already made the 'meth = happyfuntime' connection, and you'll start craving when you try to stop.

I was lucky and pulled myself out relatively early in the cycle, I didn't realise I'd have trouble stopping until I forced myself to take a 2 month break because it was starting to effect my mood on a daily basis, and I was starting to use more heavily. I was also lucky in that I didn't start smoking it until just before that break, and snorting is a lot less more-ish.

Don't you find the short duration of coke a bit of a pain? Having to constantly redose must get irritating, especially if you're in a social situation, and it would be hell on your nose.

A little X tip for you is to get this over the counter supplement called 5-HTP, a serotonin precursor. It basically increases serotonin production, but it doesn't release it to your body so you don't feel better, it's just that when you do take X, you'll release more serotonin. A lot of X users will take it daily for like 2 weeks before they drop to make the high better, then the days following they drop 2 a day to get their serotonin right again, thereby reducing the depression.

Sadly, 5htp isn't available OTC in Aussieland. I do make use of the dopamine equivelant (l-tyrosine) when I'm coming down off meth, and I find it helps a lot. Not that it erases the comedown, but it smooths it out and makes the next day or two a lot more manageable. I've been meaning to order some 5htp online, but it's not really practical. I limit myself to once a month or so with MDMA anyway (in theory, in practice it ends up closer to every 3 weeks or so on average), so the comedowns usually aren't 'that' terrible.

Oxy has such a gentle comedown it's not even funny. When it wears off you'll just feel like laying down, you'll be SUPER relaxed, bed is really comfortable, and you'll just fall asleep. You will sleep crazy, too. Sober, I'm a very deep but quick sleeper, average about 4-6 hours a night. The night after Oxy it's usually 9-11 hours.

Sounds so much more fun than sitting there sweaty, sketchy, sore, your brain running at 10000 miles an hour, trying desperately to pass out. Do want.

Sadly, I wouldn't even know where to begin trying to obtain opiates. I can get anything club/rave related with a little effort, but opiates don't really circle around in that scene. The only dealer I know who probably could have managed it got owned by cops a month or two back and is now in jail.

[Salshun]

Originally Posted by Azrayne

That sounds like me. Usually I'll start partying friday or saturday night, keep going till sunrise, come down in the morning at recovery, then head home and bum around till I pass out some time the next afternoon/night. On the rare occasion I go out two nights in a row, I usually stop dosing and try and recover during the day between, it's rare for me to go on a 2+ day bender, I find the crash afterwards just isn't worth it.

Meth addiction is something that creeps up on you. It's definately not 'one hit and you're hooked' like they say. It's once you start using fairly frequantly that you begin to have issues. The problem is you try it once, don't feel any addiction, then keep using because it's so fun/conveniant. By the time you realise you have a problem, the brain has already made the 'meth = happyfuntime' connection, and you'll start craving when you try to stop.

I was lucky and pulled myself out relatively early in the cycle, I didn't realise I'd have trouble stopping until I forced myself to take a 2 month break because it was starting to effect my mood on a daily basis, and I was starting to use more heavily. I was also lucky in that I didn't start smoking it until just before that break, and snorting is a lot less more-ish.

Yeah, that's what I hear about meth. I'm pretty much for the legalization of all drugs, but meth is the exception. Any other drug, with the possible exception of heroin, it is possible to have a completely "casual" relationship with it. Coke is a once every 6 months kind of thing for me. Meth, though, it seems like everyone that does it turns into that guy that's stealing from his mom to get more. Also, it makes people pretty violent, unlike other drugs. I really wish the stuff was just gone from the earth, especially because their are so many cleaner, safe amphetamines out there. With Adderall, it's always the same dose, made safe, etc. It's legit, pharmaceutical grade shit; meth is made by guys in the back of Winnebago's.

Don't you find the short duration of coke a bit of a pain? Having to constantly redose must get irritating, especially if you're in a social situation, and it would be hell on your nose.

Yeah, it is kind of a double-edged sword. On one hand, you get the good aspect of "Doing X amount wont render me useless for the next 2 days" but on the other hand if you want to get stupid for 2 days, you're going to have to pay for it. I will say that coke is one of those thing where getting good shit is so hard to do and happens so infrequently that you convince yourself that "Oh man a gram will only last me for this long" but the reality is if you had some premo grade shit the same amount would last you 4 times as long as the mediocre shit. One thing that's happening a lot here in Vegas is people cutting the coke with powderized lidocaine because it produces that same lip/nose/tongue numbness associated with high grade coke.

Sadly, 5htp isn't available OTC in Aussieland. I do make use of the dopamine equivelant (l-tyrosine) when I'm coming down off meth, and I find it helps a lot. Not that it erases the comedown, but it smooths it out and makes the next day or two a lot more manageable. I've been meaning to order some 5htp online, but it's not really practical. I limit myself to once a month or so with MDMA anyway (in theory, in practice it ends up closer to every 3 weeks or so on average), so the comedowns usually aren't 'that' terrible.

I haven't done X in a year, maybe 2. It's really a social drug, ESPECIALLY a relationship social drug and my girl isn't interested anymore. It doesn't strike me as something I would want to do while playing Halo with a buddy, you know?

Sounds so much more fun than sitting there sweaty, sketchy, sore, your brain running at 10000 miles an hour, trying desperately to pass out. Do want.

Sadly, I wouldn't even know where to begin trying to obtain opiates. I can get anything club/rave related with a little effort, but opiates don't really circle around in that scene. The only dealer I know who probably could have managed it got owned by cops a month or two back and is now in jail.

Yeah, it's so awesome because like I said, it's not a high feeling. It's like imagine you spent a year working out, eating right, that just perfect body feeling. That's how Oxy makes you feel.

[Azrayne]

Originally Posted by Salshun

Yeah, that's what I hear about meth. I'm pretty much for the legalization of all drugs, but meth is the exception. Any other drug, with the possible exception of heroin, it is possible to have a completely "casual" relationship with it. Coke is a once every 6 months kind of thing for me. Meth, though, it seems like everyone that does it turns into that guy that's stealing from his mom to get more. Also, it makes people pretty violent, unlike other drugs. I really wish the stuff was just gone from the earth, especially because their are so many cleaner, safe amphetamines out there. With Adderall, it's always the same dose, made safe, etc. It's legit, pharmaceutical grade shit; meth is made by guys in the back of Winnebago's.

Honestly, I'm rather inclined to agree. I enjoyed the times I spent on meth, I still use it occasionally (with great care), but meth as a drug never did anybody any good, and did a lot of people a lot of harm. It's a very shallow, selfish high, and it always promises more than it gives, and takes more than either in return.

Sadly, it's the only real option for stimulants in Aus, amphetamine isn't really available with any real ease, and coke is insanely expensive/cut to all hell. Dexamphetamine/ritalin you can find, but not all that consistantly.

Yeah, it is kind of a double-edged sword. On one hand, you get the good aspect of "Doing X amount wont render me useless for the next 2 days" but on the other hand if you want to get stupid for 2 days, you're going to have to pay for it. I will say that coke is one of those thing where getting good shit is so hard to do and happens so infrequently that you convince yourself that "Oh man a gram will only last me for this long" but the reality is if you had some premo grade shit the same amount would last you 4 times as long as the mediocre shit. One thing that's happening a lot here in Vegas is people cutting the coke with powderized lidocaine because it produces that same lip/nose/tongue numbness associated with high grade coke.

This is pretty much what I hear. That most coke is cut to all hell, and by the time it reaches you it's rarely over 50% purity.

On the other hand, the importers never really seem to bother cutting meth, probably too much effort to convincingly recrystalize it, so what we get is fairly close to pure.

I haven't done X in a year, maybe 2. It's really a social drug, ESPECIALLY a relationship social drug and my girl isn't interested anymore. It doesn't strike me as something I would want to do while playing Halo with a buddy, you know?

Yeah, it's not. I use it pretty much exclusively when partying, I'm a huge trance/hard dance fan, and that whole scene is drowned in ecstasy pills. You go to a club or a festival and 3/4 of the people are on pills, you get offered them all over the place, baggies strewn all over the dancefloor etc.

It's probably something I'll grow out of eventually, but MDMA was my first real drug experience (the token 'tried weed at a party at 15 and didn't feel anything' aside), and it's what introduced me to the whole idea of mind altering substances. I've tried other things, but it always seems to come back to MDMA. Nothing I've felt since matches that feeling of perfection when you're peaking on pills.

Yeah, it's so awesome because like I said, it's not a high feeling. It's like imagine you spent a year working out, eating right, that just perfect body feeling. That's how Oxy makes you feel.

That's kind of what I'd say meth feels like, when you get a really good high going. Of course you're really stimulated, full of energy, but mostly it's just you feel 'perfect', like you're operating at 110%, everything you say or do is the best thing you could say or do in that situation, you feel confident, funny, smart, strong, fast, and top it off with a subtle floating happiness. Just so incredibly 'alive' that by comparison nothing bad really matters. It's not a messy 'omg I'm so fucked up hahahah this is awesome' you get with pills.

[Asmadai]

I'd eat pills, but being able to soberly witness my roomate's pilled out phases, and how big of a forgetful, incoherant douchebag it turns him into when he's all pilled out just told me no.

I never really liked pills that much anyway - to me, they were just too hard, if not impossible to 'turn off' if I had to if some serious shit hit the fan.

[Salshun]

Originally Posted by Asmadai

I'd eat pills, but being able to soberly witness my roomate's pilled out phases, and how big of a forgetful, incoherant douchebag it turns him into when he's all pilled out just told me no.

I never really liked pills that much anyway - to me, they were just too hard, if not impossible to 'turn off' if I had to if some serious shit hit the fan.

Oxy isn't like that at all, I've done presentations at work while on a dozen of them and no one was the wiser.

[Asmadai]

Nah he doesn't eat Oxy's - he's more of a pain killer/xanax person.

[Salshun]

Originally Posted by Asmadai

Nah he doesn't eat Oxy's - he's more of a pain killer/xanax person.

Um, Oxy IS a painkiller, one of the more powerful ones.

Also Azrayne I shot you a private message, check it.

[Asmadai]

Originally Posted by Salshun

Um, Oxy IS a painkiller, one of the more powerful ones.

Also Azrayne I shot you a private message, check it.

Haha, well if it's a painkiller, i'm sure it would turn my roomate into a douchebag with what I call 'fisheye'. Course he's always eating hydrocodones I think it is? Some yellow painkiller, I dunno.

I don't keep up much with pills. When it comes to recreational drugs I'm more of a natural person than man-made stuff.

Save, LSD. God I love that shit.

[Salshun]

Originally Posted by Asmadai

Haha, well if it's a painkiller, i'm sure it would turn my roomate into a douchebag with what I call 'fisheye'. Course he's always eating hydrocodones I think it is? Some yellow painkiller, I dunno.

I don't keep up much with pills. When it comes to recreational drugs I'm more of a natural person than man-made stuff.

Save, LSD. God I love that shit.

Yeah, hydrocodone and Oxycontin are both opium based painkillers. Taking 10 Hydrocodones would be like taking 1 Oxycontin. With the exception of morphine and dilaudid, Oxycontin is the most powerful medical painkiller out there.

Dilaudid is some AMAZING shit. 1MG will put a 300lb guy on his ass. Like a single drop of the liquid in his blood stream. They use it for people that basically have late stage cancer, guys that wrecked a motorcycle at 200mph, that kind of thing.

Also, LSD is semi-synthetic, it's not all man made. They just basically chemically treat a certain plant to create it, so it's like half natural, half lab.

[BigMovieBuff]

About 8 months ago I had appendicitis and was rushed to the ER for an emergency appendectomy.

The first thing they did at the hospital was put an IV in and give me a shot of Morphine.

Nothing I've ever experienced has been as amazingly pleasurable as that. I went from the most excruciating pain I'd ever felt, to absolute bliss in about 30 seconds.

[Salshun]

Originally Posted by BigMovieBuff

About 8 months ago I had appendicitis and was rushed to the ER for an emergency appendectomy.

The first thing they did at the hospital was put an IV in and give me a shot of Morphine.

Nothing I've ever experienced has been as amazingly pleasurable as that. I went from the most excruciating pain I'd ever felt, to absolute bliss in about 30 seconds.

That Dialudid shit I mentioned above is about twice as strong as Morphine, and if you want to go pure balls to the wall their is a drug called Fentanyl that is roughly EIGHTY-ONE FUCKING TIMES as strong as morphine. The LD50 of this shit is HALF A FUCKING MILLIGRAM. An average does for recreational use of this shit is 1/10,000 of a gram. To put that in perspective, an average night of fun for me with Oxy is a 1/3rd of a gram. A hit the size of a pencil tip would more than likely kill you.

[Eomer]

Quick question: I have life insurance, mostly due to complications caused by business succession etc in the event I kick it. It's payable to my company and not me. Either way, when I was first insured, they had a nurse come out to my place to do a bunch of tests, make sure I wouldn't drop dead right away etc. At one point she out of nowhere asked if I smoked pot, to which I replied that I did very occasionally, and when asked to measure my use I estimated once every 2-3 months. Stupid fucking mistake on my part, I know, I should have just kept my mouth shut.

So BAM, smoker rates on the life insurance. Pretty much upped the premium by 50%. We're renewing this year and I'd like to get that designation removed, so now I have to fill out a shitload of questionnaires and other bullshit to get the preferred non-smoker rates. They may be taking a piss test, even.

Got any good links or websites that talk about how long pot stays in the system and stuff? I wouldn't say I consume a lot, and right now I've decided to drop it altogether for a little while, but if they want me to pee in a cup in a couple weeks, I just want to make sure I'm good otherwise I'll delay it as much as possible. Rough summary of my usage for the past while:

Jan-Mar - occasional use on weekends didn't buy any for myself, I'd just mooch of people on ski trips etc
April - bought a 1/2 oz at the beginning of the month, and from then until the end of the month smoked daily until it was gone (gave a bit to friends as well). As I said I'm not a big consumer when I have pot, but I do smoke it regularly if I have it (just small amounts). Stopped smoking earlier this week.

I have no idea what kind of thresholds or acceptable levels they'll have, I just know it's Transamerica Life and they're probably going to be really fucking anal about it.

[Salshun]

Originally Posted by Eomer

Quick question: I have life insurance, mostly due to complications caused by business succession etc in the event I kick it. It's payable to my company and not me. Either way, when I was first insured, they had a nurse come out to my place to do a bunch of tests, make sure I wouldn't drop dead right away etc. At one point she out of nowhere asked if I smoked pot, to which I replied that I did very occasionally, and when asked to measure my use I estimated once every 2-3 months. Stupid fucking mistake on my part, I know, I should have just kept my mouth shut.

So BAM, smoker rates on the life insurance. Pretty much upped the premium by 50%. We're renewing this year and I'd like to get that designation removed, so now I have to fill out a shitload of questionnaires and other bullshit to get the preferred non-smoker rates. They may be taking a piss test, even.

Got any good links or websites that talk about how long pot stays in the system and stuff? I wouldn't say I consume a lot, and right now I've decided to drop it altogether for a little while, but if they want me to pee in a cup in a couple weeks, I just want to make sure I'm good otherwise I'll delay it as much as possible. Rough summary of my usage for the past while:

Jan-Mar - occasional use on weekends didn't buy any for myself, I'd just mooch of people on ski trips etc
April - bought a 1/2 oz at the beginning of the month, and from then until the end of the month smoked daily until it was gone (gave a bit to friends as well). As I said I'm not a big consumer when I have pot, but I do smoke it regularly if I have it (just small amounts). Stopped smoking earlier this week.

I have no idea what kind of thresholds or acceptable levels they'll have, I just know it's Transamerica Life and they're probably going to be really fucking anal about it.

For what seems like a frequent smoker like yourself (and you are, infrequent would be like once or twice a month), give it 3 weeks for a blood test, and 3 weeks -> month for urine. If they're going to do hair, you're teh fucked. I've heard of guys buying that special shampoo only to have them pluck a hair from their facial hair, shit even their arm. So unless you want to wash your entire body with that shit, if they're doing hair you might want to roll in their looking like an albino cat and tell them you're training for the olympic swimming team.