M.S. in Finance

[FulorianC]

Some background:

I graduated in May, from the University of North Texas, a reasonably well regarded regarded public university, with a BBA in Entrepreneurship. I've realized lately that Entrepreneurship was kind of something my parents pushed me towards, and my real interest lies more in finance.

Now, last semester, I worked my ass off on GMAT/MBA applications, and submitted apps to 5 different schools - with rejections from all. I know at least 2 of them would have been acceptances on any other year.

So now, I'm changing tacks, and I'm strongly considering getting an MS in Finance at the University of Texas at Dallas, instead of an MBA at a more highly regarded school. I don't have post-graduate work experience, and I know I have a very strong interest in the equity markets and want to work there for the remainder of my career.

I kind of understand the differences betweean an M.S. in Finance, and an MBA with a concentration in Finance, in that the MBA positions you for upper management, but at the same time - for an analyst role, does it matter? I know this leaves me open for an MBA later, but is there anything I'm missing? Does anyone have an MS in Finance and can advise on the differences/lacking versus an MBA? Advantages? Potential earning power? Job market?

[Warrian]

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/gener...nance-etc.html

[Ancalagon]

Go get some work experience if you want to pursue a graduate degree in business with an eye toward working in the business world. Whoever advised you to apply to MBA programs with no post-graduate work experience was seriously derelict in his/her duty. Seriously, go find out if that's what you want to spend the rest of your life doing before you pursue a graduate degree in it. That's besides the fact that at any respectable school someone without post-grad work experience, unless he's an absolute prodigy/natural, is going to be totally out of his league in classrooms filled with seasoned vets.

[Lyrical]

Originally Posted by FulorianC

I kind of understand the differences betweean an M.S. in Finance, and an MBA with a concentration in Finance, in that the MBA positions you for upper management, but at the same time - for an analyst role, does it matter? I know this leaves me open for an MBA later, but is there anything I'm missing? Does anyone have an MS in Finance and can advise on the differences/lacking versus an MBA? Advantages? Potential earning power? Job market?

You'll need an MBA to move up in levels once you get a job as a Financial Analyst. At the company I worked at, of all the guys that were Senior Finance Analyst or higher, 99% of them had an MBA. The one guy that didn't have an MBA had a Masters in Engineering, and was able to make the transition on his own.

You should try to get the best MBA you can. In the company I was in, even if you had an MBA, if it wasn't tier 1, you never got a chance at the juicy positions.

[Lyrical]

Originally Posted by Ancalagon

That's besides the fact that at any respectable school someone without post-grad work experience, unless he's an absolute prodigy/natural, is going to be totally out of his league in classrooms filled with seasoned vets.

Honestly, this is the truth. I learned more from my classmates who worked at leading companies than my professors. I couldn't imagine sitting in a room full of people with no work experience. It adds so much more to the class, when the professor brings up the theory, then someone in class talks about the real world experience tied to it.

[Soriak]

Probably also depends on the kind of analysis you want to do. Some of those jobs are reserved for Math/Physics PhDs.

[Etruscus]

If you're serious about being an equity analyst, and you are not currently in:

A.) An intership, or
B.) A two year analyst program position and bulge bracket, or
C.) A position where you are doing something else and have already been through (B)

then I would highly suggest you focus on an getting real experience in anyway you can. I would also consider taking the CFA exam. You should begin this immediately and aim for a June 2010 test date. Don't bother with the December 2009, it's too late.

It's possible to get an MBA and end up doing nothing but clearing trades for the rest of your life in a back office position or doing risk analysis in a middle office position, but if you truly want front office, and everyone wants front office, you need to work on your network. Getting an MBA isn't a requirement though to being a good analyst and its not even a requirement to move up the ladder. Having your CFA is a must as an equity analyst.

In financial firms, having an MBA will land you an associate position straight out of the program, provided you went to a top ten, and you had a good summer internship (Analyst < Associate < VP < Director < MD)

It also depends on if you want to be buy side or sell side, and most everyone wants to be buy side, since sell side equity analyst are essentially sales dressed as analysts. Most good analysts here in New York move on to some buy side chop after their two year gig, like a private equity firm or a hedge fund who's strategy matches your experience.

I wouldn't bother with a master's in finance, unless you want to understand the intricacies between IFRS and GAAP reporting and you really really really want to go work on at a big four accounting firm. If that is the case, go for it, but if you do you want do any analytical work. It will all be back office / middle office P&L reconciliation.

If I was you, I would try and get a position working as front office as possible and study my ass off for my MBA. Leverage your current assets and call in your Rolodex. Move to New York. Do whatever it takes and give up nothing. Just remember, equity analysts are probably the second most desired positions right after M&A, and in my opinion, not all that fun.

I would also search for your question on this forum:

CFA, CAIA, FRM Exam Discussion at AnalystForum for Chartered Financial Analyst candidates :: CFA® General Discussion

Best of luck to you.

[Lucane Darkseraphim]

Originally Posted by Etruscus

I wouldn't bother with a master's in finance, unless you want to understand the intricacies between IFRS and GAAP reporting and you really really really want to go work on at a big four accounting firm. If that is the case, go for it, but if you do you want do any analytical work. It will all be back office / middle office P&L reconciliation.

Accounting barely has anything to do with a MSF degree.

Anyways, don't apply for graduate school this year and perhaps not even the next. The competition is too fierce and you will stand a better chance with some work experience + waiting a few years.

[Burkex]

I got my MBA at USC. I had worked for almost 4 years before I went to grad school. You will not get into a good grad school just out of college, the only real chance you have is the college you went to undergrad because as an Alum you might get special treatment. You really need minimum of 3 years work experience, grad schools usually look for around 5 years experience. Then you need a clear direction of what you want from Grad school and what you want to do after grad school, this will be asked in the essay and the interview process--and will be a big part of the process along with good grades, references and a high GMAT score. Applying to grad schools now is really competitive and they want people with experience to add to the classroom and learning process.

I would really recommend getting a job in Finance now. I know the Finance market is in bad shape right now but just get anything you can to start out and you can always keep looking for another job while you are working AND when you work for a company it is much easier to apply to other jobs from withing to move up. But you will really need to get some experience first. The other good thing about working is that most companies will pay for you to continue your education and take tests which benefit your career (it is an investment to them). So, while you are working take as many tests as you can to further your career. Things you can do for finance are: Get your CFA (Chartered Financial Analyst) also maybe get your Series 7 license, Series 63 license, and your Series 66 license. You could also probably take some grad school classes at a local college while you are working and work would pay for those too. Then you could get some credits out of the way for when you go to get your MBA.

Good luck.

[FulorianC]

Well, MS programs don't require work experience, where MBA's generally do. I knew full well that lack of work experience would hurt me on MBA admissions, but I at least had a shot at it. The recession killed my chances of getting a decent job, so I refocused to try to finish my education during the bad times.

Also, I've looked into CFA, and while I'm considering it for the future, doesn't it require at least 1-2 years of working in the finance industry prior to even taking the first exam?

I've started looking into Series 7 and 66 already, but those will be ultimately useless if I end up an equities analyst.

I don't have any internship experience, but I'd like to do so - I've taken finance classes in the undergraduate level, and am competent at reading and interpreting financial statements, and even some rudimentary knowledge of stock valuation based on financials. I'm just not sure how to get plugged into the market to get those connections.

One of the big reasons I'm looking into MS is that it won't preclude me from getting an MBA later, and thus leaves me free to pursue Wharton/Harvard/Chicago much later, when I have a solid work experience under my belt and a genuine need for it.

Also, for the accounting comments: at best, I'd be taking two or three accounting classes in the entire MSF, and 8 - 10 finance classes. The school I'm looking at even has an investment management track to its MSF, as well as a CFA-prep track.

[Elerion]

Originally Posted by Etruscus

I wouldn't bother with a master's in finance, unless you want to understand the intricacies between IFRS and GAAP reporting and you really really really want to go work on at a big four accounting firm. If that is the case, go for it, but if you do you want do any analytical work. It will all be back office / middle office P&L reconciliation.

I'm not sure what you think a MS in Finance entails, but it's not this (unless you want to minor in accounting).

[Etruscus]

Originally Posted by Elerion

I'm not sure what you think a MS in Finance entails, but it's not this (unless you want to minor in accounting).

Just to clarify what I wrote there, it doesn't really matter what the degree has, it's just not that respected. You're not going to get out doing front office work, and your certainly not going to get out with a nice associate position. At best, maybe, if you have the right connections and a rolodex the size of mars you can find an internship somewhere and you can spring from that.

I could be totally wrong though. But I work midtown, and I've never met anyone with a masters in finance who works front office. But things change, right? Which school is it, by the way?

If you don't land front office immediately, you end up in the back office. And that's clearing trades, risk, P&L, compliance, etc.

Now that I think of it though, I seem to think Fund of Funds like MF for their due diligence analyst positions. But that's a far cry from an equities analyst.

The only two real options are MBA and MFE if you want to focus on finance, in my opinion. That is, if you want to be an equities analyst.

[r3probate]

I see you've already covered yourself on the accounting jab, but I want to second that you couldn't be more wrong on that front. You might learn about IFRS vs GAAP in a MAcc program - but those are designed for people who want to take the CPA and go big 4, like you said.

MFEs - You referring to M.Financial Engineering or M.Financial Economics? There are about two pure FinEc programs that I can think of offhand (Princeton, Said @ Oxford) and good luck getting in to either of those, period. Without an essentially perfect quant score you won't even get an interview.

Financial Engineering is very legit, but if my research is right, those programs churn out quants en masse, not equity analysts.

[Grooverider]

Man, I'd love to do the MSc in Financial Economics at Oxford. Wonder how competitive it is..

[Lucane Darkseraphim]

Originally Posted by Etruscus

Just to clarify what I wrote there, it doesn't really matter what the degree has, it's just not that respected. You're not going to get out doing front office work, and your certainly not going to get out with a nice associate position. At best, maybe, if you have the right connections and a rolodex the size of mars you can find an internship somewhere and you can spring from that.

I could be totally wrong though. But I work midtown, and I've never met anyone with a masters in finance who works front office. But things change, right? Which school is it, by the way?

If you don't land front office immediately, you end up in the back office. And that's clearing trades, risk, P&L, compliance, etc.

Now that I think of it though, I seem to think Fund of Funds like MF for their due diligence analyst positions. But that's a far cry from an equities analyst.

The only two real options are MBA and MFE if you want to focus on finance, in my opinion. That is, if you want to be an equities analyst.

And once again you are just wrong.

As a MSF alumni from a southeastern college I know for a fact that our program is constantly placing students into IBanking, onto the trading floor at top banks / pensions (including GS), and into hedge funds.