Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac - the big bailout?

[Gurgeh]

Originally Posted by Cynno

You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

Considering the massive joke that was the rest of your post, I assume this was ironical ?

If you decide to go for "no-regulation" on the market, how do you enforce the pricing of shares & assets ?

[Kugbok_Fennin]

Originally Posted by Lyrical

I don't know what Ron Paul stands for, but apparently that is a good thing. It seems he knows about as much economics as your average politician (jack-squat). This idea sounds almost as bad as letting politicians run it.

1- The 1st Depression was caused by people making bank runs. Under your scenario, if the banker goes to jail, and the customers get news and make a bank run, those are the same circumstances of a Depression.

2- So if we off go of liquid assets, companies that bring in earnings from services or IP, the shareholders get screwed? So software companies, pharmaceutical companies, etc. would be worthless? Given that we are moving more and more to being a services economy, you would have lots of companies that be worth much more than what their liquid assets.

3- Who is going to manage inflation? As a member of the Fed taught us in lectures, markets don't manage inflation well at all. A market left to totally free operations will let inflation spiral out of control as businesses keep testing on how much they can push the envelope, but at the same time, they don't increase what is paid to the workers.

4- The Fed sometimes counters the politicians. At times, when the politicians are trying to curry votes and show a short-term boost in the economy (even if inflation increases exponentially), the Fed has tightened up on inflation. At times, we've needed the Fed to offset the stupid policies of the politicians.

Under Paul's plan, if party X (who is in control at the time) puts out something that will be inflationary, who fights it? You can't say the free market will, because the "invisible hand" usually agrees with inflation (stemming from the supply-side). Empirically, we know the markets don't manage inflation, but from the supply-demand curve, the supply part will set pricing based on inflation set by politicians (or any thing else).

Paul sounds like a nut, and so do you and Kugbok.

You're fucking dumb.

Ron Paul has been the one bitch slapping everyone on the Economy for over a year now. He told everyone during the Presidential debates this was going to happen. No one listened. It happened, yet people still try and say he doesn't know what he is talking about. Ron Paul is on the House Economic committee. Ron Paul probably knows more about Econ then you could ever hope to learn. SO before you jam your foot further in to your mouth maybe you should admit you are just talking out of your ass and STFU.

You're economic education is flawed and full of holes. The Depression in the early 1900's was engineered by the big bankers and assholes that wanted to create the FED to grab a hold of the American economy. They ran the typical National Socialist play. Problem, Reaction, Solution. They created the problem with the banks, fabricated a panic reaction from the public, and offered a solution to the people that took the power from congress and put it in the hands of big central banks. They changed our economy to a debt based, fiat currency system. Debt based markets constantly need to be fed in order to survive. How does the FED do this? by loaning (at interest) money to our Treasury. SO from day one, you are in debt. Debt that you can never pay back. As such you become a slave to this monster. So see, the FED and the central reserve banks that make it up only are there to serve one purpose. Their stockholders and investors.

You sir, are a fucking moron! Minus internetz for talking out of your ass.

[Lyrical]

Originally Posted by Kugbok_Fennin

You're fucking dumb.

Ron Paul has been the one bitch slapping everyone on the Economy for over a year now. He told everyone during the Presidential debates this was going to happen. No one listened. It happened, yet people still try and say he doesn't know what he is talking about. Ron Paul is on the House Economic committee. Ron Paul probably knows more about Econ then you could ever hope to learn. SO before you jam your foot further in to your mouth maybe you should admit you are just talking out of your ass and STFU.

You're economic education is flawed and full of holes. The Depression in the early 1900's was engineered by the big bankers and assholes that wanted to create the FED to grab a hold of the American economy. They ran the typical National Socialist play. Problem, Reaction, Solution. They created the problem with the banks, fabricated a panic reaction from the public, and offered a solution to the people that took the power from congress and put it in the hands of big central banks. They changed our economy to a debt based, fiat currency system. Debt based markets constantly need to be fed in order to survive. How does the FED do this? by loaning (at interest) money to our Treasury. SO from day one, you are in debt. Debt that you can never pay back. As such you become a slave to this monster. So see, the FED and the central reserve banks that make it up only are there to serve one purpose. Their stockholders and investors.

You sir, are a fucking moron! Minus internetz for talking out of your ass.

Wow, you Paul supporters are crazy. Pretty much when someone starts talking about the Fed as some Jewish conspiracy to take over the country, it ruins your argument.

If the extent of your argument is that there is some conspiracy to run a shadow government, you fail.

It makes sense to value a business on liquid assets (when most companies have more intangible IP than assets and we are moving to a service economy), and you think markets will manage inflation? And as much a believer as I am in free markets, it is now generally accepted that a free market will let inflation spiral out of control (through supply side). You also need a Fed to counter inflationary short term solutions that hurt us in the long term.

I am pretty sure that if we used Paul's plan, we'd be enjoying double-digit inflation year after year.

But please, feel free to pummel us with your lack of knowledge about basic economics. You learn this stuff in Econ 101 in any accredited school - something you clearly haven't taken. Its clear that the extent of knowledge you have of economics is that there is a Zionist consiparcy afoot. We get it, you are a paranoid lunatic on the level of Lumie. Now tell us something that is pertinent to the conversation or just stop posting.

[Xequecal]

Originally Posted by Kugbok_Fennin

You're fucking dumb.

Ron Paul has been the one bitch slapping everyone on the Economy for over a year now. He told everyone during the Presidential debates this was going to happen. No one listened. It happened, yet people still try and say he doesn't know what he is talking about. Ron Paul is on the House Economic committee. Ron Paul probably knows more about Econ then you could ever hope to learn. SO before you jam your foot further in to your mouth maybe you should admit you are just talking out of your ass and STFU.

You're economic education is flawed and full of holes. The Depression in the early 1900's was engineered by the big bankers and assholes that wanted to create the FED to grab a hold of the American economy. They ran the typical National Socialist play. Problem, Reaction, Solution. They created the problem with the banks, fabricated a panic reaction from the public, and offered a solution to the people that took the power from congress and put it in the hands of big central banks. They changed our economy to a debt based, fiat currency system. Debt based markets constantly need to be fed in order to survive. How does the FED do this? by loaning (at interest) money to our Treasury. SO from day one, you are in debt. Debt that you can never pay back. As such you become a slave to this monster. So see, the FED and the central reserve banks that make it up only are there to serve one purpose. Their stockholders and investors.

You sir, are a fucking moron! Minus internetz for talking out of your ass.

Assuming your post is true, how exactly do you intend to prevent those "assholes" from fucking us in an even worse way once we return control of things to the way they were before 1900?

[Cynno]

Originally Posted by Gurgeh

Considering the massive joke that was the rest of your post, I assume this was ironical ?

If you decide to go for "no-regulation" on the market, how do you enforce the pricing of shares & assets ?

You've never heard of pricing a stock based on a companies assets?

Perhaps before speaking, you could check that out.

Assuming your post is true, how exactly do you intend to prevent those "assholes" from fucking us in an even worse way once we return control of things to the way they were before 1900?

You enforce the fraud laws already on the books.

[Xequecal]

Originally Posted by Cynno

You enforce the fraud laws already on the books.

If, like Kugbok posted, the central bankers really managed to pull off a massive conspiracy resulting in the government instituting the Fed to their benefit, I really don't think they'll have problems along these lines. They can just take the more direct route - buy the legislators to change the laws to what you want. People do this *now*.

[Zaniel]

Originally Posted by Cynno

You've never heard of pricing a stock based on a companies assets?

Perhaps before speaking, you could check that out.

Are you implying that all companies with the same basic asset base are worth an identical amount even if one uses its factory to make shit-sandwiches and the other uses its factory to make a magical machine that shits solid gold & hookers? The income stream doesn't count?

Are you, comrade, going to enforce a price and tell people this is what they have to pay if they want to buy these companies? Only equal to its book value and no more?

What if I tell you to fuck off because I would rather not buy the one that makes shit sandwiches and am prepared to pay somewhat more for the magic gold 'n' hookers machine company?

[Lyrical]

Originally Posted by Zaniel

Are you implying that all companies with the same basic asset base are worth an identical amount even if one uses its factory to make shit-sandwiches and the other uses its factory to make a magical machine that shits solid gold & hookers? The income stream doesn't count?

Shhh, you are making too much common sense here. You don't need a degree in economics to reason this out.

[Lyrical]

Originally Posted by Zaniel

Are you, comrade, going to enforce a price and tell people this is what they have to pay if they want to buy these companies? Only equal to its book value and no more?

Sounds like communism to me.

Originally Posted by Zaniel

What if I tell you to fuck off because I would rather not buy the one that makes shit sandwiches and am prepared to pay somewhat more for the magic gold 'n' hookers machine company?

I'd love to see the answer here. Maybe they send you to Siberia or something.

You can't force arbitrary price valuations (which is what this is) on the market. At least don't try to convince us you are for free markets if you think you are going to control the thought processes of people. Most companies now have more intangibles than they to in tangible assets.

[GrobbeeTrull2.0]

So... then you're arguing against Free Markets, Lyrical?

[Cynno]

Originally Posted by Zaniel

Are you implying that all companies with the same basic asset base are worth an identical amount even if one uses its factory to make shit-sandwiches and the other uses its factory to make a magical machine that shits solid gold & hookers? The income stream doesn't count?

Are you, comrade, going to enforce a price and tell people this is what they have to pay if they want to buy these companies? Only equal to its book value and no more?

What if I tell you to fuck off because I would rather not buy the one that makes shit sandwiches and am prepared to pay somewhat more for the magic gold 'n' hookers machine company?

Well, the base worth of the stock would be the same as they have the same amount of asset worth.

The issue comes with earnings reports and growth potential. Earning reports as they are now are forecasts, and they are basically comic books, as we saw from this financial crash and the Enron books.

[Zaniel]

Originally Posted by Cynno

Well, the base worth of the stock would be the same as they have the same amount of asset worth.

The issue comes with earnings reports and growth potential. Earning reports as they are now are forecasts, and they are basically comic books, as we saw from this financial crash and the Enron books.

That's not what you said in your first post. Your position has reduced to "don't write crazy shit in your EOY reports", which is already pretty much the law under market disclosure rules (notwithstanding the dubious ability of regulators to enforce this).

[Lyrical]

Originally Posted by Zaniel

That's not what you said in your first post. Your position has reduced to "don't write crazy shit in your EOY reports", which is already pretty much the law under market disclosure rules (notwithstanding the dubious ability of regulators to enforce this).

I am not sure Kugbok or Cynno ever really had a position (based in logic anyway). Its easy to rail about how the Fed is nothing but a huge conspiracy, but Paul's viewpoint makes no sense.

1- You claim to be about free markets, but you are going to enforce price valuations based on assets. You guys still haven't said how you will enforce price controls on the market. This isn't allowing the free market to decide its own valuations. I guess you are going to throw people in jail that don't think a company is worth more than its tangible assets. Dosvedonya, comrade!

In your world, a two companies with the same quality of tangible assets are worth the same, regardless of how long they have been in business, reputation, the levels of customer service, or even who is making more in net earnings. This makes zero sense.

2- You ignore that inflation does happen and that markets don't really regulate it that well.

3- You ignore the ALBATROSS that is government policy. Both sides have pushed major bills that have been inflationary because they are pandering to the voters. The Fed has fought inflationary policies of the government, and if it didn't, we'd be seeing double-digit inflation (or at least inflation increasing faster than real wages) year after year. Inflation screws everyone!

The Paul plan doesn't even work on paper, and can be disproven in less than five minutes. Thank God Paul won't ever be President.

[Lyrical]

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

So... then you're arguing against Free Markets, Lyrical?

I am not arguing against free markets, but I can't stand idiots that talk like they are for free markets but talk about enforcing price controls (with a penalty of jail). Throwing people in jail for thinking differently than you has nothing to do with free markets. Markets will set whatever price they deem fit, no matter what legislation you put out there. They might engage in black and grey market ways to price out what they want, but they will find a way to get around it.

[Araxen]

If Ron Paul says it, it must be from god!