[Tea on tuesday]

Originally Posted by Dabamf

I'm enjoying the taste of my foot right now. Odd, I remember my philosophy teacher explaining "begging the question" exactly as I described it. A couple of my other classes also went over fallacies for various reasons, and that impression was never disconfirmed.

Well, I made a good argument for always checking wiki before arguing a definition or concept.

Regardless, I got another beef. The real definition is way too close to that of circular reasoning. I motion to change it to my definition, which currently (I believe) has no term associated with it. Tell the authorities.

I also misunderstood millie's point probably because I didn't read everything. I'm not quite convinced it's circular though, but at this point it doesn't matter.

I stand by my opinion on the rickshaw.

Begging the question isn't just close to circular reasoning it is circular reasoning. Whenever in doubt just go straight to the horse's mouth, my main man, Aristotle.

Τὸ δ᾽ ἐν ἀρχῆι αἰτεῖσθαι καὶ λαμβάνειν ἐστὶ μέν, ὡςἐν γένει λαβεῖν, ἐν τῶι μὴ ἀποδεικνύναι τὸ προκείμενον, τοῦτο δὲ συμβαίνει πολλαχῶς· καὶ γὰρ εἰ ὅλως μὴ συλλο-γίζεται, καὶ εἰ δι᾽ ἀγνωστοτέρων ἢ ὁμοίως ἀγνώστων, καὶ εἰ διὰ τῶν ὑστέρων τὸ πρότερον· ἡ γὰρ ἀπόδειξις ἐκ πιστοτέ-ρων τε καὶ προτέρων ἐστίν. τούτων μὲν οὖν οὐδέν ἐστι τὸ αἰτεῖ-σθαι τὸ ἐξ ἀρχῆς· ἀλλ᾽ ἐπεὶ τὰ μὲν δι᾽ αὑτῶν πέφυκε γνωρίζεσθαι τὰ δὲ δι᾽ ἄλλων (αἱ μὲν γὰρ ἀρχαὶ δι᾽ αὑ-τῶν, τὰ δ᾽ ὑπὸ τὰς ἀρχὰς δι᾽ ἄλλων), ὅταν μὴ τὸ δι᾽ αὑτοῦ γνωστὸν δι᾽ αὑτοῦ τις ἐπιχειρῆι δεικνύναι, τότ᾽ αἰτεῖται τὸ ἐξ ἀρχῆς. τοῦτο δ᾽ ἔστι μὲν οὕτω ποιεῖν ὥστ᾽ εὐθὺς ἀξιῶ-σαι τὸ προκείμενον, ἐνδέχεται δὲ καὶ μεταβάντας ἐπ᾽ ἄλλα ἄττα τῶν πεφυκότων δι᾽ ἐκείνου δείκνυσθαι διὰ τούτων

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Εἰ οὖν ἐστι τὸ ἐν ἀρχῆι αἰτεῖσθαι τὸ δι᾽ αὑτοῦ δεικνύναι τὸ μὴ δι᾽ αὑτοῦ δῆλον, τοῦτο δ᾽ ἐστὶ τὸ μὴ δεικνύναι, ὅταν ὁμοίως ἀδήλων ὄντων τοῦ δεικνυμένου καὶ δι᾽ οὗ δείκνυσιν ἢ τῶι ταὐτὰ τῶι αὐτῶι ἢ τῶι ταὐτὸν τοῖς αὐτοῖς ὑπάρχειν, ἐν
μὲν τῶι μέσωι σχήματι καὶ τρίτωι ἀμφοτέρως ἂν ἐνδέχοιτο τὸ ἐν ἀρχῆι αἰτεῖσθαι, ἐν δὲ κατηγορικῶι συλλογισμῶι ἔν τε τῶι τρίτωι καὶ τῶι πρώτωι. ὅταν δ᾽ ἀποφατικῶς, ὅταν τὰ αὐτὰ ἀπὸ τοῦ αὐτοῦ· καὶ οὐχ ὁμοίως ἀμφότεραι αἱ προτάσεις (ὡσαύτως δὲ καὶ ἐν τῶι μέσωι), διὰ τὸ μὴ ἀντιστρέφειν

τοὺς ὅρους κατὰ τοὺς ἀποφατικοὺς συλλογισμούς. ἔστι δὲ τὸ ἐν ἀρχῆι αἰτεῖσθαι ἐν μὲν ταῖς ἀποδείξεσι τὰ κατ᾽ ἀλήθειαν οὕτως ἔχοντα, ἐν δὲ τοῖς διαλεκτικοῖς τὰ κατὰ δόξαν.