[Utnayan]

The other thread was locked, and I asked permission to post a new one. With me behind this one, you know what you are getting yourself into. So keep the Utnayan love/hate down to a minimum, and I would like to get opinions on what people think of this.

Vanguard has been in development for 4 and a half years. Beta testers are not logging in. The game is simply not fun or keeping people playing even in beta as a fresh MMORPG. Fanboy's are rampant in defending the game, beta testers are now being called upon to actually develop it.

This was an email I got from a beta tester. In the other thread, it was mentioned that beta testers were actually being asked serious design questions. I am all for feedback, but when you have to ask your beta testers questions around core fundamental concepts regarding questing, community building, interdependence, etc - I think itis plainly obvious that this game is now being built as they go.

Here is the info I have received, and I have injected some of my comments.

Right now, Sigil and Vanguard have a ton of problems. I just received this email and I will highlight the important aspects. Let me go ahead and preface the post with this:

While I don't agree with your posting methods or the way you go about getting your point across, I do agree with the message.

Some important things I think the players and fans of this game should know before they make a purchase decision. These words from the senior lead of Vanguard.

"Inside the Box: The Uninteresting Edges of the World
Please read the post entitled: Inside the Box Experiment prior to posting in
this thread.

Vanguard has a fairly large world, and we won’t be able to fill /all/
of it with interesting content by the time we ship.

Well, at least they admit it. To bad they aren't telling the people that are buying the game. What is going to be unfinished? Where in the world? Just how much content missing is acceptable to you? Going to be finished on subscription revenue I am guessing? Either way, they do not have the ideas on how to do it. And this isn't touching the fact that is world content isn't going to be finished on an overland level, just how much high end content will you actually have finished before you ship. A long leveling curve basically means you will be dedicating your resources to finishing a high end raiding design doc. Hap hazardly in most cases as we have all seen before with EQ expansions. Bugs will again get thrown to the way side, and subscription revenue to finish what should have already came with the game. How much are you going to ship incomplete with regards to the end game?

What reasons can you think of to visit the ends of the earth, to visit
the uninteresting areas? Keep in mind, these areas may not have any compelling points of interest, or any real special NPC population. What /game mechanics/ not content could pull you to these areas?

I am all for feedback. But asking what type of game mechanics should be used here? Are you expecting the beta testers to make the game?

I have heard many different opinions on how difficult the game should
be in the first few levels. I’d like to hear yours, with a bit of reasoning.

Level 1
What should you fear in combat if anything?
Should you have to manage resources to win?
How many creatures should you battle before resting?

Level 2
What should you fear in combat if anything?
Should you have to manage resources to win?
How many creatures should you battle before resting?

Level 3
What should you fear in combat if anything?
Should you have to manage resources to win?
How many creatures should you battle before resting?

Level 4
What should you fear in combat if anything?
Should you have to manage resources to win?
How many creatures should you battle before resting?

Level 5
What should you fear in combat if anything?
Should you have to manage resources to win?
How many creatures should you battle before resting?

This question and summary for answers is just absurd. Shouldn't you know how to make the game? You're asking beta testers to basically write the first 5 levels of a design doc for combat. What's happening here? Again, I am all for feedback -- but this goes beyond it. It shows that you just don't know what you are doing.

Aside from grouping, list 3 community building mechanics or activities
that should be included in Vanguard. Also, list 3 reasons why high level players should interact with low level players.

Community Building 1

Community Building 2

Community Building 3

Vertical Interdependence 1

Vertical Interdependence 2

Vertical Interdependence 3

Wow. Just wow. First of all, I hope you explain what vertical interdependence is to most people who aren't going to know even though it is somewhat explained in the statement of the question. Second, this is something that should have been thought of YEARS ago. You are asking your beta testers for community building and interdependence ideas. Things that are buried deep in the core foundation of the game itself. The very fact that you do not have skill sets already set up around this interdependence at this stage shows just how little you have completed, and to me on a subjective level, almost makes it seem that you have no plan of action and are making the game as you go. That is a terrible way to release a title - especially when you plan on shipping in 6 months. Microsoft wanted to release this in July - and I appluad your effort at buying at least a little more time - even though it is blatantly obvious you missed major milestones from poor producing and it would have REALLY flopped had it launched, but good God, this isn't something that should be asked of beta testers if you have a well thought out plan for this. This is conceptual design type of stuff.

"Inside the Box: Quests
Please read the post entitled: Inside the Box Experiment prior to posting in
this thread. Many people post that they have great ideas for quests, or complain that all of the quests in the game are the same / boring.

Well, instead of meandering and arguing back and forth, let’s see some
suggestions within a limited set of parameters. A quest can be thought of as a set of objectives that must be reached in order to be completed. Many different objectives can be had for a single quest. You can chain together different objectives into “parts of a quest”.

In your descriptions use NPCs and Areas specific to Vanguard – if something
is really cool, perhaps a designer will run with your suggestion.

Quest Name or Series Name: What would you name this quest?

Method of Gaining the Quest
How do you gain the quest? Is it via dialog? Is it via clicking an item? Is
it via walking past a location? Are there any conditions that must be met
prior to gaining the quest?

Description Text Told to Player
In 512 /characters/ or less what text would be told to the character?
It can be harder than it sounds if you want to give out lore.

Objectives
Describe the objectives of the quest. These must be things that can be tracked in a numeric or Boolean manner. I.E. Do something 5 times or Go to this spot.

Accepting – What Happens?

What happens when a player accepts the quest? Does nothing happen and
the player needs to run around and complete the objectives? Do ten wolves
spawn and immediately attack the player?

Outcome – What Happens?

What happens when a player finishes the quest? Are you rewarded with
items, given new quests? Does a majestic eagle spawn and fly into the sunset?"

The first thing I think of when I read the first statement, to me anyway, seems like the writer is throwing a temper tantrum with all the negative feedback they are getting about content, throwing what needs to be done logistically at the beta tester, and saying, "Fine. See if you can do any better" Another part of me thinks they are just looking for ideas for fun quests. Another part of me wonders, given the relatively experience-less associate designers hired on the buddy system - if they are just not able to do the above. It's one thing to be able to have an idea, it's one thing to do it via table top gaming and be an on the fly DM. It's quite another to follow a strict set of instruction sets while making interesting combat choices based on a skill set with intricate grouping dependancies, while following the lore of the world, making it match with the world, designing the right reward system to not imbalance the other areas of the game, make some items not overpower the other items in a given content area, etc. I am sure some of these friends of McQuaid that got hired have some good ideas - but implementing them is entirely different - and now they are being forced to go to the gamer to see if they can think of anything. Again, that is how I see it.

That's about all I have at this point. Most of the other questions asked of beta testers I thought were of normal feedback variety that wasn't something that should have been thought of years ago.

I'll end it with what the emailer wrote to me.

The responses are quite.. interesting, to say the least. I'm currently
considering whether its worth compiling a collection of various "debates"
that occur on the VG forums and releasing the information anonymously, so
people can see for themselves exactly how badly thing are messed up, but I
haven't made much of a decision yet.

My entire argument, even though I know a lot of people do not like the way I get it across, has been to announce an indefinite delay to go back to the drawing board and do something else with this game. I think it is fairly obvious, as it stands now, that it will release as a pay now patch later MMORPG, that I think we can all agree on, has no room in this market any longer.