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Originally Posted by Lyenae What happens if they all have similar risk/reward? What happens if what you need doesn't drop in the seemingly "best bang-for-the-buck dungeon." People hammered the shit out of Sebillis because it owned the other dungeons (namely original Chardok) on a TON of levels, and it wasn't just loot. |
That's funny right there. Sebilis was popular because it had the most generous loot table of the crawlable Kunark dungeons. Gems dropped constantly, the mobs were all very enchanter friendly, and the breaks were easy. So people gravitated there based on best bang for the buck...period. every heavily populated dungeon in EQ was based on bang for the buck, either in terms of loot or exp. Why do the Fear or Hate break when Sky was so much easier to zone into, prepare for and grind? Maybe because of the gay loot tables in Sky as opposed to the cash loot (for its time) in Fear and Hate? Every expansion was the same. One dungeon/zone ended up being the best bang for the buck, so that's where everyone went. Everyone in EQ went after the most efficient way to slog the grind.
If the loot tables in Sebilis and Chardok had been reversed, Chardok would have been farmed constantly. Example of this can be seen in Lower Guk. Which side was always camped, live or dead? Same dungeon, same design, same layout, but dead side had a better loot table, so it got farmed way heavier than live side. basically, once you had your frog crown for the Halls of Testing grind, you never set foot in Live Guk anymore. Loot is the primary driver of where people go. The fact that you used the Kunark expansion's most glaring example of this to try and prove otherwise is hysterical. Hey, how often did people go to Najena once the JBoots were taken off the loot table and given to the AC?
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Originally Posted by Lyenae Unintended, undesired results are vital to MMO's. That's where gameplay depth comes from. People took their skills, knowledge, etc, and found ways to "get ahead", or how McQuaid would put it as "beat the system." Today anything borderline on playing outside the developers vision of gameplay is immediately branded an exploit. That's sad.
I highly doubt some of the 'unintended' bullshit excuses they came up for a wide variety of 'undesireables.' How can you develop the druid class with snares, dots, and sow... and then claim you never intended the concept of kiting? Are you fucking that thick? Who the fuck is in charge of designing your rules systems it they can't even come up with these extremely basic "undesired" combo's a 13 year old ritalin monkey behind a computer can? They claimed the same shit for monks FD, and other little tricks.
Instances/scripts force you to play a game a certain way. No one told you how to play the game in EQ. You could run through a dungeon, or you could camp what you needed. You had a choice. You could solo pull mobs, or you could AE farm the entire dungeon. Choice. |
Instancing in WoW doesn't force you to play the dungeon a specific way any more or less than EQ did. Sure, a lot of boss fights in WoW are gimmicky, but where the fuck do you think Blizzard learned the gimmick boss fight from? Lady Vox was a gimmick fight ffs, and in vanilla EQ, everyone did it the same way. On the way to a boss in a dungeon, lots of ways to skin the cat in both WoW and EQ. The games are fundamentally equal, with the only real difference as far as dungeons and raids being that content in WoW is available to everyone regardless of what mood uber_guild01 happens to be in that day.
Oh, in EQ you can solo pull or AE? Holy shit, is that sorta like how some classes in WoW do single pulls, but prot pallies and frost mages (and others who have the know how) can do AE? Here's the thing, in EQ and WoW, the playstyle was dictated by the class, not the player. Not a lot of rogues in EQ did charm soloing, but enchanters and bards did. Not too many people besides wizards and druids quad kited too much, and I am not sure how many folks besides necromancers did a lot of fear kiting. AE dungeon clears were dependent on having 2 classes in a group in multiples - wizards and enchanters, so don't come now and make it sound like a rogue and shadowknight could go all sandbox and choose to go single pulls or AE the fuck out of Sebilis, depending on their whim.
and in EQ you can do one camp, kill one named mob for its loot, or crawl the whole damn place? What makes that any fucking different than a WoW instance besides the fact that in WoW, if you have the key/right to enter the instance, the content will be there for you despite a small legion of fuckheads who want to cock up your day? Seriously, besides cockblocking, leapfrogging and griefing, what's the difference?