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Originally Posted by Seryne  Obviously, a big problem with our disagreement is that you ignore the fact that class diversity and fundamental game mechanics coincided with the move from 40 to 25 mans and simply attribute some things which are really not related to size to size. |
No, I'm not ignoring that, I'm simply not including it in the reasons for why 40 man > 25 man. Class and spec diversity is great, I don't think you'll find me stating otherwise anywhere.
Every raid up until Naxx was 'easier' because it was designed that way, not because of raid size. You carrying 15 retards has nothing to do with the overall difficulty of the raid game, since carrying retards is and always will be what the raid game is about. Every guild has 'those people' that just aren't up to par, and trying to say that cutting the raid down to 25 people somehow makes them disappear is a fallacy at best.
And certainly while I can appreciate the ball-boasting of taking less people to do more, it doesn't really apply to the raid size cap that we're talking about. Great, you took 25 people to kill something that everyone else does with 70 -- this is a unique situation that simply doesn't apply to the raid cap where encounters are designed with a set number of players. Likewise, taking 10 people to kill Onyxia/Gruul is a similar situation, but you wouldn't build a 10 man guild to raid 25 man content because it's just not feasible. So when everyone has a 25 man raid, who is boasting that they are killing mobs with less than 40?
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Managing 25 people is certainly easier than managing 40
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Is it? Is it really? I'd love to get a poll of guild leaders/officers who had extensive experience pre- and post-BC that could pick easier, harder, or nearly the same. The overall management of systems is nearly identical across raid sizes, the difficulty in it comes from creating them, implementing them, and then keeping them up to date as required. The more people added into that system simply lessens individual accountability, it does NOT inherently increase management difficulty. The one true difficulty of raid/guild management, cliques, is just as rampant in a 25 man raid as it is in a 40 man raid, and equally damaging if not mitigated. More people does not mean less social cohesion, more people simply means more people.
The bottom line is that the reduction in raid size is supposed to make forming and managing a guild easier. The reality is it doesn't. The difficulties in creating a guild of like minded people are just as present today as they were in the 40 man days, and I would submit that giving up the avenues of development that the extra 15 people in a raid nets you is not worth the reduction in size at all.