[Lithose]

Originally Posted by Tullaeniel

Pretty funny been playing MMO's that long and you still can't spot the faulty design that is arenas? In that case not only are you a fucking 07'er, you are a goddamn fool as well.

Asshole, lets think really clearly about this. Its a competitive ladder system, in the final stages of an expansion, that has worked the same way for the past 14 months. What dynamic changes do you think they can institute without re-writing a huge amount of code that will allow for a more perfect system, without completely altering the way the system currently works. I have played MMO's long enough to realize that a fix here is complicated and can affect dozens of other systems, so nonconstructive whining, complete with dramatic and stupid comparisons so other companies, probably isn't that great for me, but hey, whatever floats your boat. However, to humor you, lets give this a shot, shall we, Junior?

1.) Maybe you want it to be so teams who have shoulders automatically get placed in a higher bracket?

What about people who earned shoulders in 5v5, and are playing 2v2, but the class comp in the new bracket is much, much worse.

2.) Don't reset personal rating and use that for matching?

No fluidity between teams? That sounds awesome for people who play competitively in the upper brackets. I mean, having a new 1500 rated 5v5 come in with 5 2300 rated players and beat you for 25 points sounds incredible and will be sure to make someone's night. Especially if their loss is only worth 5 or so.

3.) Get rid of team ratings.

See above, except add in a decent PvPer from a 3v3 that serves as a ringer in 5v5 to drop the "average" personal down about 250 points so the 2200+ team climbs almost for free, yeah, awesome right?

4.) Re-write the system to encourage more competitive play at the upper end, which requires continued membership in a team, thus preventing smurfing by forcing a player to stay on team.

See, to me, this is the only logical solution. Unfortunately, something like this won't happen at the end of an expansion development cycle, because, again, your not going to have majore re-writes to code and mechanics.

What your going to have is small, band aid fixes that try to alleviate the problem. The "Problem" now being that people can earn something without even pushing themselves, which is terrible game design, we can all look back over countless MMO's to find out what happens to games that go down that path.

There is also, as you so eloquently mentioned, selling teams and point traders. Selling will become slightly more difficult and point trading will become a little harder, too, but your right, this won't eliminate them. However, guess what?

Point sellers are not such a massive, over-encompassing problem that they subgect "new" arena teams to constant beatings, they just aren't.

Win traders, while they suck, again, are a small portion of the overall-base.

Both of these people will now have a more difficult time doing what they are doing..Have they written a magical code preventing continued matches if a team faces each other more then twice? No, but considering the next biggest whine of the masses, like you, is que times, somehow I don't think something that would likely increase those is going to come across as awesome.

You need a system that offers incentives for competition, which pretty much means you need a system that is voluntarily more risky after a certain point and requires continued membership within the system. However, since the rewards this expansion have been set, used and known for some time, that kind of change will not happen yet.

But hey, band aid fixes to a ladder system do sound a lot like Alchemy not working and being denied for a year, right?

Originally Posted by Vorph

UO? UO?! Shit, son, I was ownin' bitches in LP-MUD back in '90.


Ok, fuck that, I give up. How do you even write like that much of a retard without smacking yourself upside the head?

Play on words, retarded response in turn for another retarded response..Like as in, to your response, I would post "I rocked D&D 1st edition bitch" (see what I did there? I changed genre's like a moron, much like you did when you referenced a MUD, because, you know, a MUD is not an MMO), because you chose to use the same type of response, but obviously, the joke has flown over your head, so..

Go fuck yourself for entering into a stupid argument that was started based on a join date tag, as if it were a symbol of knowledge and awesomeness. The start of this argument and my response obviously was tailored to encourage more debate, because we must maintain the cool factor of how long we have been posting on an internet, MMO-based message board, right?

I was hoping to make the response dumb enough that only a true fucking idiot would pursue it or respond to it, but wow, I guess I shouldn't have been surprised.

(Incoming debate on how MMO means massive multiplayer online and a MUD was a multiplayer type of game just without graphics so they are essentially the same! This argument will ignore the facets of the current genre that have become synonymous with MMO's and take this conversation to..a new low. So, before you start, Vorph, you win here, please just stop your subtle mental attack before it begins, I can feel the stupid crawling into my head.)